M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Kevin Van Horn]

Section 2.5 of the online manual states that "If [M-<RET>] is used at the beginning of a headline the new headline is created before the current line."

This is not what happens. If I have

* Foo
** Bar
*** Baz

with the cursor at the beginning of headline "Bar", and use M-<RET>, I get

* Foo
** Bar
**
*** Baz

instead of

* Foo
**
** Bar
*** Baz 

That is, I get a blank headline AFTER the current headline, and it becomes the new parent of the original headline's children.

As far as I can tell, that leaves me with no easy way of creating a new heading as the first subheading of an existing heading.





Kevin S. Van Horn, Ph.D. | Senior Developer III
The Modellers
6995 Union Park Center Ste 300 | Salt Lake City, UT 84047
Salt Lake City Office (Mountain Time)

D: 801.290.3823
E: kevin.vanhorn@themodellers.com 

www.themodellers.com

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Igor Sosa Mayor]

Kevin Van Horn <kevin.vanhorn@themodellers.com> writes:

> Section 2.5 of the online manual states that "If [M-<RET>] is used at the beginning of a headline the new headline is created before the current line."
[...]
> That is, I get a blank headline AFTER the current headline, and it becomes the new parent of the original headline's children.
>
> As far as I can tell, that leaves me with no easy way of creating a new heading as the first subheading of an existing heading.

are you really at the beginning of the headline? I have no problems with
this feature in org 8.2.6. 

Which is your org-version?

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Bastien]

Hi Kevin,

There used to be such a problem but it has been fixed.

When you report a bug, please first check it's not here anymore
with the latest stable version, or at least provide the version
string of Org.

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Kevin Van Horn]

Thank you for your response, but... 

Using the most recent stable version of emacs I still see the bug.

When I override the built-in version of org and install version 20140519 of org using the package manager, I still see the bug.

I am working under Windows 7, and my emacs version is 24.3.1.

Kevin S. Van Horn, Ph.D. | Principal Engineer
D: 801.290.3823 | Salt Lake City Office (Mountain Time)

-----Original Message-----
From: Bastien Guerry [mailto:bastienguerry@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bastien
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 7:46 PM
To: Kevin Van Horn
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

Hi Kevin,

There used to be such a problem but it has been fixed.

When you report a bug, please first check it's not here anymore with the latest stable version, or at least provide the version string of Org.

Thanks,

--
 Bastien

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Bastien]

Hi Kevin,

Kevin Van Horn <kevin.vanhorn@themodellers.com> writes:

> Thank you for your response, but... 
>
> Using the most recent stable version of emacs I still see the bug.

What gives M-x org-version RET?

> When I override the built-in version of org and install version
> 20140519 of org using the package manager, I still see the bug.
>
> I am working under Windows 7, and my emacs version is 24.3.1.

I'm still unable to reproduce this, sorry.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Kevin Van Horn]

Org-mode version 8.2.6 (8.2.6-22-gb11b4a-elpa).

Emacs: GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.1.7601)
 of 2013-03-17 on MARVIN

Kevin S. Van Horn, Ph.D. | Principal Engineer
D: 801.290.3823 | Salt Lake City Office (Mountain Time)


-----Original Message-----
From: Bastien Guerry [mailto:bastienguerry@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bastien
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:01 AM
To: Kevin Van Horn
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

Hi Kevin,

Kevin Van Horn <kevin.vanhorn@themodellers.com> writes:

> Thank you for your response, but... 
>
> Using the most recent stable version of emacs I still see the bug.

What gives M-x org-version RET?

> When I override the built-in version of org and install version
> 20140519 of org using the package manager, I still see the bug.
>
> I am working under Windows 7, and my emacs version is 24.3.1.

I'm still unable to reproduce this, sorry.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Bastien]

Hi Kevin,

Kevin Van Horn <kevin.vanhorn@themodellers.com> writes:

> Org-mode version 8.2.6 (8.2.6-22-gb11b4a-elpa).

Okay.

Hopefully someone else can reproduce this, but I cannot, sorry.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Kevin Van Horn]

I also see this with GNU Emacs 24.2.1, same org-mode version, still Windows 7, but a different machine.

Kevin S. Van Horn, Ph.D. | Principal Engineer
D: 801.290.3823 | Salt Lake City Office (Mountain Time)


-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Van Horn 
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:16 PM
To: Bastien
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: RE: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

Org-mode version 8.2.6 (8.2.6-22-gb11b4a-elpa).

Emacs: GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.1.7601)  of 2013-03-17 on MARVIN

Kevin S. Van Horn, Ph.D. | Principal Engineer
D: 801.290.3823 | Salt Lake City Office (Mountain Time)


-----Original Message-----
From: Bastien Guerry [mailto:bastienguerry@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bastien
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:01 AM
To: Kevin Van Horn
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

Hi Kevin,

Kevin Van Horn <kevin.vanhorn@themodellers.com> writes:

> Thank you for your response, but... 
>
> Using the most recent stable version of emacs I still see the bug.

What gives M-x org-version RET?

> When I override the built-in version of org and install version
> 20140519 of org using the package manager, I still see the bug.
>
> I am working under Windows 7, and my emacs version is 24.3.1.

I'm still unable to reproduce this, sorry.

--
 Bastien

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Bastien]

Hi Kevin,

Kevin Van Horn <kevin.vanhorn@themodellers.com> writes:

> I also see this with GNU Emacs 24.2.1, same org-mode version, still
> Windows 7, but a different machine.

I tested again carefully, with Org-mode release_8.2.6-22-gb11b4a (the
exact same version as yours) and could not reproduce the problem.

This version has one problem: not inserting the right level headline
when converting a non-headline line into a headline, when point is at
the beginning of a line.  But when point is at the beginning of a
headline, the inserted headline goes above it, not after it.

If you can, please make a small screencast demonstrating the issue
together with M-x org-version RET in it.

Thanks,

-- 
 St Thomas

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Kevin Van Horn]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1252 bytes --]

The attached PNG files illustrate the problem, for two different cases: one without any notes under the heading, and one with notes under the heading.

Kevin S. Van Horn, Ph.D. | Principal Engineer
D: 801.290.3823 | Salt Lake City Office (Mountain Time)

-----Original Message-----
From: Bastien Guerry [mailto:bastienguerry@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bastien
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 10:24 PM
To: Kevin Van Horn
Cc: 'emacs-orgmode@gnu.org'
Subject: Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

Hi Kevin,

Kevin Van Horn <kevin.vanhorn@themodellers.com> writes:

> I also see this with GNU Emacs 24.2.1, same org-mode version, still 
> Windows 7, but a different machine.

I tested again carefully, with Org-mode release_8.2.6-22-gb11b4a (the exact same version as yours) and could not reproduce the problem.

This version has one problem: not inserting the right level headline when converting a non-headline line into a headline, when point is at the beginning of a line.  But when point is at the beginning of a headline, the inserted headline goes above it, not after it.

If you can, please make a small screencast demonstrating the issue together with M-x org-version RET in it.

Thanks,

--
 St Thomas




[-- Attachment #2: before-M-RET.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 53310 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: after-M-RET.PNG --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 50388 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #4: also-before-M-RET.PNG --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 53803 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #5: also-after-M-RET.PNG --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 50308 bytes --]

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Bastien]

Hi Kevin,

Kevin Van Horn <kevin.vanhorn@themodellers.com> writes:

> The attached PNG files illustrate the problem, for two different
> cases: one without any notes under the heading, and one with notes
> under the heading.

In the screenshots, I see that the point is not really at the start of
the line when you hit M-RET, but at the start of the heading's content.
You need to put the point at the start of the line.

Or am I missing something?

-- 
 Bastien

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Kevin Van Horn]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2004 bytes --]

Thank you for your help -- I have been beating my head against this for quite some time. Putting the cursor at the beginning of the line does in fact work.

I'm going to argue that there is still a problem here, though. Here's what I read at http://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-editing.html:

"If the command is used at the beginning of a headline, the new headline is created before the current line."

That doesn't say "beginning of line". I think where my cursor was sitting was the only reasonable interpretation of "beginning of headline". Furthermore, there's nothing in that paragraph that tells me to expect the behavior I did see.

The behavior I encountered is confusing because it is discontinuous -- as demonstrated in the attached images, if I have the cursor one character into the heading, then everything after the cursor goes on the lower line and everything before the cursor goes on the upper line. If I move the cursor one character to the left then this is suddenly reversed. And if I move the cursor all the way to the beginning of the line we revert back to the "everything after the cursor goes on the lower line" behavior.

Kevin S. Van Horn, Ph.D. | Principal Engineer
D: 801.290.3823 | Salt Lake City Office (Mountain Time)

-----Original Message-----
From: Bastien Guerry [mailto:bastienguerry@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Bastien
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2014 11:12 PM
To: Kevin Van Horn
Cc: 'emacs-orgmode@gnu.org'
Subject: Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

Hi Kevin,

Kevin Van Horn <kevin.vanhorn@themodellers.com> writes:

> The attached PNG files illustrate the problem, for two different
> cases: one without any notes under the heading, and one with notes 
> under the heading.

In the screenshots, I see that the point is not really at the start of the line when you hit M-RET, but at the start of the heading's content.
You need to put the point at the start of the line.

Or am I missing something?

--
 Bastien




[-- Attachment #2: before.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 36676 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: after.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 36746 bytes --]

Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Charles Millar]

Kevin Van Horn wrote:
> Thank you for your help -- I have been beating my head against this for quite some time. Putting the cursor at the beginning of the line does in fact work.
>
> I'm going to argue that there is still a problem here, though. Here's what I read at http://orgmode.org/manual/Structure-editing.html:
>
> "If the command is used at the beginning of a headline, the new headline is created before the current line."
>

IMHO the definition of a headline is clear in the manual

2.2 Headlines

Headlines define the structure of an outline tree. The headlines in Org 
*start* with one or more stars, on the left margin

Regards, Charlie Millar

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Re: M-<RET> does not work as described in the manual

[Bastien]

Hi Kevin,

I clarified the explanations about M-RET in the manual, I hope things
are easier to understand now.

Thanks,

-- 
 Bastien