Re: [Feature Request] - Furigana - Yomigana - Ruby

[Tristan Nakagawa <tristan.nakagawa@gmail.com>]

Hi,

For some reason, I don't get the follow-ups per mail, neither can I
respond via the gmane interface =(.
Right now I don't have time to figure it out, so I will let you know
here for all solutions:

Thanks, all, very nice! In fact, pure awesomeness!

And it's brand new. I didn't know about it before, and now found the
info that you mentioned it:
http://orgmode.org/worg/org-8.0.html

I had just looked with my old emacs version in the manual, not the
upgrade release notes..
(I had 7.9.3d, I had updated via the emacs package manager, but
unsuccessful due to loading some orgmode functions at startup in emacs.
after renaming .emacs and deleting the old org, the package manager
successfully updated.)


I didn't get Suvayus solution in the old version, i suspect it might
work in the new version, but since the snippet version (see below)
doesnt involve changing the backend for every macro, i didn't follow up
on it

Thomas' ruby link solution works nicely (except the closing tag should
be </ruby>, not <\ruby>, and works for both for latex and html.

The only downside is that you won't see the symbol in the original
orgfile or in section headers in the export, just the reading, but that
is a very minor annoyance and this is a very nice elegant solution with
a very readable source org file.
(I don't guess the link could be redefined to switch reading and symbol
around?)

Christians suggestion with snippets works great, both for html and pdf
via latex; even in section headers.
(it took me reading the 8.0 upgrade info to understand we were talking
about the <at> symbol, not literally "<at>" in the code.

Thanks all for your help =)
And Torsten, I guess this also lines out the solution on how to
implement specific features without cluttering the basic exporters.

m_ _m

best,
Tristan


On 2013-05-28 19:36, Torsten Wagner wrote:
> Hi Tristan,
> 
> don't get me wrong. Being married to a Chinese and lived in Japan for many
> years I know exactly what you are talking about ;)
> I just feel it needs some clean and well defined way how to implement all
> those different export features without cluttering the basic exporters.
> 
> Somehow the same reason why we use a zillion of packages for LaTeX itself.
> I just got aware of that, by reading your post. Recently, we got new
> exporters thus, should be the next step to get/define modules for those
> exporters or even being able to write your own rules easily within the file?
> 
> The 2 worst case scenarios IMHO...
> the exporters gets more and more extended getting harder to maintain and
> error prome
> people start forking the exporters html-cjk, html-hangul, html-netscape ;)
> 
> Thus, I would love to hear what others might think is the most clean way to
> add your feature request and be prepared for the many many others in the
> future.
> 
> Greetings
> 
> Torsten
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 28 May 2013 17:43, Tristan Nakagawa <tristan.nakagawa@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hi Torsten,
>>
>> Thanks for the input,
>> To have definable export rules would indeed be great, to increase
>> flexibility while keeping the base exporter simple and lightweight.
>>
>> I agree that this is somewhat specific, however, I believe that
>> globally, this is not unfrequent, and will become quite frequent soon:
>>
>> There is, for example, the ease of drafting and flexibility of output
>> (print quality pdf and epub-convertible html),so orgmode can be used so
>> well outside of the traditional latex-technical and science paper realms
>> for novels, books, blog-posts (org2blog).
>>
>> And imagining the number of people on this planet speaking Chinese and
>> japanese, Korean, Thai, and other languages I am not even aware of that
>> use rubys to help reading, the number of people learning these
>> languages, creating two-language blog-posts, textbooks, etc etc.
>>
>> It might take a while before all browsers support the tags (my Firefox
>> doesnt even yet), but for epub&pdf creation, this would already be great!
>>
>>
>> (Just to back up the feature-request beyond definately needed and
>> appreciated discussion about how and if to make the exporter more
>> modular or costumizable)  ..  =)
>>
>> best,
>> Tristan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2013-05-28 15:00, Torsten Wagner wrote:
>>> Hi Tristan,
>>>
>>> this feature request seems simple to implement on one side. However, it
>>> opens a question how to deal with those in general.
>>> \ruby{東} is a very specific command of the CJK package.
>>> If this get's implemented in the standard html exporter, other very
>> special
>>> commands might need to follow. That could easily go into a nightmare. I
>> do
>>> not have a detailed view how the exporters work now, thus, it is a
>>> interesting question I want to ask here: How should specific needs for
>>> exporting (like Tristans) be embedded in the future.
>>>
>>> People could fork exporters. Creating e.g. a HTML-CJK exporter.
>>> Even better would be to have exporter modules which could be loaded by
>>> users.
>>>
>>> #+HTML_MODULES CJK,
>>>
>>> However, I believe that for many users, the special cases are not very
>>> frequent and complex. Might it be possible to create a very simple syntax
>>> for exporting rules which could be either in those above modules or
>>> directly within the file written by the user themself?
>>>
>>> #+HTML_USER_RULE   \ruby{$1}{$2}, <ruby> $1
>> <rp>(</rp><rt>$2</rt><rp>)</rp>
>>> <\ruby>
>>>
>>> Would like to hear what other think about that.
>>>
>>> Greetings
>>>
>>> Torsten
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 28 May 2013 00:41, T.T.N. <tristan.nakagawa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> So this is my first try to post to the mailing list. I Love Orgmode, you
>>>> guys are the best!
>>>>
>>>> I would like to use orgmode to capture japanese text to later export to
>>>> latex, html and epub.
>>>> For japanese symbols, sometimes the pronounciation is put in smaller
>>>> letters above the symbol to help the reader.
>>>> These are called ruby in general in typesetting (in japanese, they are
>>>> also called furigana/yomigana, which I put in the header so not
>> everybody
>>>> thinks of the programming language..)
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Furigana<
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furigana>
>>>>
>>>> In Latex, using CJK and ruby packages, This exports ok.
>>>> (A problem being that japanese text in headers doesn't. But i guess
>> that's
>>>> another (and rather Latex, not orgmode-specific) topic.
>>>>
>>>> Now, my feature request would be to make the html exporter interpret the
>>>> latex command
>>>> \ruby{symbol}{reading}
>>>> as:
>>>> <ruby> symbol <rp>(</rp><rt>reading</rt><rp>**)</rp> <\ruby>
>>>>
>>>> as suggested here, for parentheses on non-ruby supporting browsers:
>>>> http://xahlee.info/js/html5_**ruby_tag.html<
>> http://xahlee.info/js/html5_ruby_tag.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For the org-mode file (you might see some blank squares if you have no
>>>> japanese support):
>>>> Here a minimal working example for export:
>>>>
>>>> ###
>>>> #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage[CJK, overlap]{ruby}
>>>> #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage{CJK} \end{CJK}
>>>> #+LATEX \begin{CJK}{UTF8}{min}
>>>>
>>>> "\ruby{東}{ひがし}アジア" means east asia in japanese
>>>> #+LATEX \end{CJK}
>>>> ###
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All the best, and keep on rocking my world in plain text! =)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>