tables: is it possible to use a comma instead of a period as a number delimiter

tables: is it possible to use a comma instead of a period as a number delimiter

[Izzie]

Hi,

I started using org tables including a column of numbers formatted the European 
way with a comma instead of a period, for example 127,43 for 127.43.

When I use a formula to sum the whole column it expect a period and ends up with 
a false calculation. I'd revert my numbers to the American format but this table 
is used for accounting so it's not an option. Going through the manual didn't 
provide any help.

Is there a way to have org use the european format or am I to ditch the formula 
and make use of C-c + to manually calculate the sum ?

Izzie

Re: tables: is it possible to use a comma instead of a period as a number delimiter

[Michael Brand]

Hi Izzie

The only direct solution I can think of now is with Emacs Lisp for
number/string conversion and ./, replacement:

#+begin_src emacs-lisp :results silent
  (defun com2num (com)
    "convert number string with comma like \"2,3\" to number like 2.3"
    (string-to-number (replace-regexp-in-string "," "." com)))
  (defun num2com (fmt num)
    "convert number like 2.300001 to number string with comma
like \"2,3\", formatted with fmt like \"%.1f\""
    (replace-regexp-in-string "\\." "," (format fmt num)))
#+end_src

|  <r> |
|------|
| 10,2 |
|  3,0 |
|  5,6 |
|------|
| 18,8 |
#+TBLFM: @5='(num2com "%.1f" (apply '+ (mapcar 'com2num '(@2..@4))))

Michael

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 01:12, Izzie <ml_orgmode.kapush@antichef.net> wrote:
> I started using org tables including a column of numbers formatted the European
> way with a comma instead of a period, for example 127,43 for 127.43.
>
> When I use a formula to sum the whole column it expect a period and ends up with
> a false calculation. I'd revert my numbers to the American format but this table
> is used for accounting so it's not an option. Going through the manual didn't
> provide any help.
>
> Is there a way to have org use the european format or am I to ditch the formula
> and make use of C-c + to manually calculate the sum ?

Re: tables: is it possible to use a comma instead of a period as a number delimiter

[Christian Moe]

Hi,

This seems to be a limitation in Emacs Calc, on which Org table 
spreadsheet functions are based. Calc accepts only the dot as decimal 
point for number *entry*. However, you can have it *display* the point 
as you like by customizing calc-point-char (that's `d .' in a Calc 
buffer).

In Org, you *could* try this:

(setq org-calc-default-modes
       (append org-calc-default-modes '(calc-point-char ",")))

However, it looks like this creates more problems than it's worth. 
Commas remain useless for data entry, including entry from Org table 
cells, so you would need to keep a source column with dots, and copy 
the numbers over to the column you want to display. And you could only 
do math on the source column. E. g., the following would work for a 
column of numbers to be summed at the bottom line:

| Point | Comma |
|-------+-------|
|   2.3 |       |
|  11.3 |       |
|   2.1 |       |
|-------+-------|
|       |       |
#+TBLFM: $2=$1+0::@5$2=vsum(@I$1..@II$1)

... But would you want to do this? Probably not. So something like 
Michael's solution seems to be the best option. Or are we missing 
something here?

This is not unlike the hour-minutes-seconds time format hack we 
discussed a while ago.

http://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.html#time-computation

Org tables with Calc is the greatest invention since buttered toast, 
but user-friendly localizable formats for non-scientific uses may not 
be its strong side.

Yours,
Christian


On 5/16/11 12:05 PM, Michael Brand wrote:
> Hi Izzie
>
> The only direct solution I can think of now is with Emacs Lisp for
> number/string conversion and ./, replacement:
>
> #+begin_src emacs-lisp :results silent
>    (defun com2num (com)
>      "convert number string with comma like \"2,3\" to number like 2.3"
>      (string-to-number (replace-regexp-in-string "," "." com)))
>    (defun num2com (fmt num)
>      "convert number like 2.300001 to number string with comma
> like \"2,3\", formatted with fmt like \"%.1f\""
>      (replace-regexp-in-string "\\." "," (format fmt num)))
> #+end_src
>
> |<r>  |
> |------|
> | 10,2 |
> |  3,0 |
> |  5,6 |
> |------|
> | 18,8 |
> #+TBLFM: @5='(num2com "%.1f" (apply '+ (mapcar 'com2num '(@2..@4))))
>
> Michael
>
> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 01:12, Izzie<ml_orgmode.kapush@antichef.net>  wrote:
>> I started using org tables including a column of numbers formatted the European
>> way with a comma instead of a period, for example 127,43 for 127.43.
>>
>> When I use a formula to sum the whole column it expect a period and ends up with
>> a false calculation. I'd revert my numbers to the American format but this table
>> is used for accounting so it's not an option. Going through the manual didn't
>> provide any help.
>>
>> Is there a way to have org use the european format or am I to ditch the formula
>> and make use of C-c + to manually calculate the sum ?
>
>

Re: tables: is it possible to use a comma instead of a period as a number delimiter

[Carsten Dominik]

On May 16, 2011, at 1:26 PM, Christian Moe wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> This seems to be a limitation in Emacs Calc, on which Org table spreadsheet functions are based. Calc accepts only the dot as decimal point for number *entry*. However, you can have it *display* the point as you like by customizing calc-point-char (that's `d .' in a Calc buffer).
> 
> In Org, you *could* try this:
> 
> (setq org-calc-default-modes
>      (append org-calc-default-modes '(calc-point-char ",")))
> 
> However, it looks like this creates more problems than it's worth. Commas remain useless for data entry, including entry from Org table cells, so you would need to keep a source column with dots, and copy the numbers over to the column you want to display. And you could only do math on the source column. E. g., the following would work for a column of numbers to be summed at the bottom line:
> 
> | Point | Comma |
> |-------+-------|
> |   2.3 |       |
> |  11.3 |       |
> |   2.1 |       |
> |-------+-------|
> |       |       |
> #+TBLFM: $2=$1+0::@5$2=vsum(@I$1..@II$1)
> 
> ... But would you want to do this? Probably not. So something like Michael's solution seems to be the best option. Or are we missing something here?
> 
> This is not unlike the hour-minutes-seconds time format hack we discussed a while ago.
> 
> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.html#time-computation
> 
> Org tables with Calc is the greatest invention since buttered toast, but user-friendly localizable formats for non-scientific uses may not be its strong side.

I also think that it would be more trouble than useful
to try to change this.  After all, you want to keep the
tables functional.

When the OP says he needs this for accounting, I guess
he is exporting this data somehow?  How about changing
from dot to comma only in one of the export hooks?

(add-hook 'org-export-preprocess-hook
	  'org-use-comma-in-exported-tables)

(defun org-use-comma-in-exported-tables ()
  (goto-char (point-min))
  (while (re-search-forward "\\([0-9]\\)\\.\\([0-9]\\)" nil t)
    (org-if-unprotected
     (when (save-match-data (org-at-table-p))
       (replace-match "\\1,\\2" t nil)))))


- Carsten

> 
> Yours,
> Christian
> 
> 
> On 5/16/11 12:05 PM, Michael Brand wrote:
>> Hi Izzie
>> 
>> The only direct solution I can think of now is with Emacs Lisp for
>> number/string conversion and ./, replacement:
>> 
>> #+begin_src emacs-lisp :results silent
>>   (defun com2num (com)
>>     "convert number string with comma like \"2,3\" to number like 2.3"
>>     (string-to-number (replace-regexp-in-string "," "." com)))
>>   (defun num2com (fmt num)
>>     "convert number like 2.300001 to number string with comma
>> like \"2,3\", formatted with fmt like \"%.1f\""
>>     (replace-regexp-in-string "\\." "," (format fmt num)))
>> #+end_src
>> 
>> |<r>  |
>> |------|
>> | 10,2 |
>> |  3,0 |
>> |  5,6 |
>> |------|
>> | 18,8 |
>> #+TBLFM: @5='(num2com "%.1f" (apply '+ (mapcar 'com2num '(@2..@4))))
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 01:12, Izzie<ml_orgmode.kapush@antichef.net>  wrote:
>>> I started using org tables including a column of numbers formatted the European
>>> way with a comma instead of a period, for example 127,43 for 127.43.
>>> 
>>> When I use a formula to sum the whole column it expect a period and ends up with
>>> a false calculation. I'd revert my numbers to the American format but this table
>>> is used for accounting so it's not an option. Going through the manual didn't
>>> provide any help.
>>> 
>>> Is there a way to have org use the european format or am I to ditch the formula
>>> and make use of C-c + to manually calculate the sum ?
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

- Carsten

Re: tables: is it possible to use a comma instead of a period as a number delimiter

[Christian Moe]

On 5/16/11 2:20 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> When the OP says he needs this for accounting, I guess
> he is exporting this data somehow?  How about changing
> from dot to comma only in one of the export hooks?

Ah... sanity. Yes.

And just in time, too, as I was ready to unleash on Izzie the ultimate 
accountant's nightmare -- a fragile "with-comma" macro to allow using 
comma as decimal separator in Org spreadsheets with Lisp formulas.

Yours,
Christian

Re: tables: is it possible to use a comma instead of a period as a number delimiter

[Carsten Dominik]

On 16.5.2011, at 15:23, Christian Moe wrote:

> On 5/16/11 2:20 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>> When the OP says he needs this for accounting, I guess
>> he is exporting this data somehow?  How about changing
>> from dot to comma only in one of the export hooks?
> 
> Ah... sanity. Yes.
> 
> And just in time, too, as I was ready to unleash on Izzie the ultimate accountant's nightmare -- a fragile "with-comma" macro to allow using comma as decimal separator in Org spreadsheets with Lisp formulas.

:)  Interesting!  But maybe not really practical.
We can start a file on worg, org-madness.org, next to org-hacks.org...?

Cheers

- Carsten

Re: tables: is it possible to use a comma instead of a period as a number delimiter

[Nick Dokos]

Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> On 16.5.2011, at 15:23, Christian Moe wrote:
> 
> > On 5/16/11 2:20 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
> >> When the OP says he needs this for accounting, I guess
> >> he is exporting this data somehow?  How about changing
> >> from dot to comma only in one of the export hooks?
> >=20
> > Ah... sanity. Yes.
> >=20
> > And just in time, too, as I was ready to unleash on Izzie the ultimate =
> accountant's nightmare -- a fragile "with-comma" macro to allow using =
> comma as decimal separator in Org spreadsheets with Lisp formulas.
> 
> :)  Interesting!  But maybe not really practical.
> We can start a file on worg, org-madness.org, next to org-hacks.org...?
> 

... with a prize for the craziest idea: maybe a t-shirt with an Escher-like
impossible unicorn[fn:1]. To your infinite relief, I'll let Bastien's artist friend
design it :-)

Nick

Footnotes:

[fn:1] impossible unicorn - hmm...

Re: tables: is it possible to use a comma instead of a period as a number delimiter

[Carsten Dominik]

On 16.5.2011, at 20:08, Nick Dokos wrote:

> Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 16.5.2011, at 15:23, Christian Moe wrote:
>> 
>>> On 5/16/11 2:20 PM, Carsten Dominik wrote:
>>>> When the OP says he needs this for accounting, I guess
>>>> he is exporting this data somehow?  How about changing
>>>> from dot to comma only in one of the export hooks?
>>> =20
>>> Ah... sanity. Yes.
>>> =20
>>> And just in time, too, as I was ready to unleash on Izzie the ultimate =
>> accountant's nightmare -- a fragile "with-comma" macro to allow using =
>> comma as decimal separator in Org spreadsheets with Lisp formulas.
>> 
>> :)  Interesting!  But maybe not really practical.
>> We can start a file on worg, org-madness.org, next to org-hacks.org...?
>> 
> 
> ... with a prize for the craziest idea: maybe a t-shirt with an Escher-like
> impossible unicorn[fn:1]. To your infinite relief, I'll let Bastien's artist friend
> design it :-)
> 
> Nick
> 
> Footnotes:
> 
> [fn:1] impossible unicorn - hmm...


awesome!