A mix of habits and effort estimates?

A mix of habits and effort estimates?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Hi list,

say that I'd like to learn a new language or something.  I'd like to
devote, say, 180 minutes to it each week.  Does anyone have an idea how
to achieve something like that in Org-mode:

* I create a task (say, "Learn Italian")
* I clock in/out when I start/stop doing this
* I have a few other tasks like that
* and somehow, org-magically, I can view a weekly report summarizing
  whether I spent too much or too little time on different projects.

Is such a thing possible in Org-mode?  I suspect that it might be
doable, maybe with effort estimates and/or column view (which I don't
use, but I can as well start using it), but it might also require some
elisp hacking.  Does anyone have a setup for something like this?

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: A mix of habits and effort estimates?

[Bastien]

Hi Marcin,

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:

> Is such a thing possible in Org-mode?

Did you check (info "(Org)Tracking your habits") ?

HTH,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: A mix of habits and effort estimates?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia 2013-03-16, o godz. 19:23:21
Bastien <bzg@altern.org> napisał(a):

> Hi Marcin,
> 
> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
> 
> > Is such a thing possible in Org-mode?
> 
> Did you check (info "(Org)Tracking your habits") ?

As I mentioned (though only in the subject), yes.  This is close, but
my point is not "I want to do this at least once each three days" or
something like this, but rather "I want to spend at least 180 minutes
every week on this" - regardless of days.  Of course, I could do it
with the habits module (and if there's no other solution, I will do it
like this), but what I'd like to have is actually a mixture of habits
and effort estimates/clocking.

> HTH,

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: A mix of habits and effort estimates?

[Bastien]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:

> As I mentioned (though only in the subject), yes.  This is close, but
> my point is not "I want to do this at least once each three days" or
> something like this, but rather "I want to spend at least 180 minutes
> every week on this" - regardless of days.  Of course, I could do it
> with the habits module (and if there's no other solution, I will do it
> like this), but what I'd like to have is actually a mixture of habits
> and effort estimates/clocking.

Ah, okay.  

This is not possible for now but maybe you can hack something.

-- 
 Bastien

Re: A mix of habits and effort estimates?

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hi Marcin,

Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> Bastien <bzg-whniv8GeeGkdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> napisał(a):
>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork-12VZH/wba7B4rM3dGMyr8Q@public.gmane.org> writes:
>> 
>> > Is such a thing possible in Org-mode?
>> 
>> Did you check (info "(Org)Tracking your habits") ?
>
> As I mentioned (though only in the subject), yes. This is close, but my
> point is not "I want to do this at least once each three days" or something
> like this, but rather "I want to spend at least 180 minutes every week on
> this" - regardless of days. Of course, I could do it with the habits module
> (and if there's no other solution, I will do it like this), but what I'd
> like to have is actually a mixture of habits and effort estimates/clocking.

No problem for that.

- For the sake of facility, give a unique tag to your "educational" task

- Clock to your task each time you work on it

- Whenever you want to check whether you did work enough or not, launch the
  agenda view for the current week (`v w' in case you say the current day by
  default)

- Ask for the display of the clock report (`C-u R')

- Filter on your educational task

Have fun!

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: A mix of habits and effort estimates?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia 2013-03-16, o godz. 22:59:18
"Sebastien Vauban" <wxhgmqzgwmuf@spammotel.com> napisał(a):

> Hi Marcin,
> 
> Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> > Bastien <bzg@altern.org> napisał(a):
> >> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
> >> 
> >> > Is such a thing possible in Org-mode?
> >> 
> >> Did you check (info "(Org)Tracking your habits") ?
> >
> > As I mentioned (though only in the subject), yes. This is close,
> > but my point is not "I want to do this at least once each three
> > days" or something like this, but rather "I want to spend at least
> > 180 minutes every week on this" - regardless of days. Of course, I
> > could do it with the habits module (and if there's no other
> > solution, I will do it like this), but what I'd like to have is
> > actually a mixture of habits and effort estimates/clocking.
> 
> No problem for that.
> 
> - For the sake of facility, give a unique tag to your "educational"
> task
> 
> - Clock to your task each time you work on it
> 
> - Whenever you want to check whether you did work enough or not,
> launch the agenda view for the current week (`v w' in case you say
> the current day by default)
> 
> - Ask for the display of the clock report (`C-u R')
> 
> - Filter on your educational task

Thanks, that is brilliant!  It is /almost/ what I was looking for.
(One thing that is missing might be fancy coloring, say red for things
I devoted too little time to etc.  I guess this might be actually
implemented using properties and some hooks - I'll try to look into it
some day.)  Now I only need to automate it (which should be easy with
custom agenda views, I guess.)  Thanks!

> Have fun!
> 
> Best regards,
>   Seb

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: A mix of habits and effort estimates?

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hi Marcin,

Marcin Borkowski wrote:
> Dnia 2013-03-16, o godz. 22:59:18
> "Sebastien Vauban" <wxhgmqzgwmuf-geNee64TY+gS+FvcfC7Uqw@public.gmane.org> napisał(a):
>> Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>> > Bastien <bzg-whniv8GeeGkdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> napisał(a):'
>> >> Marcin Borkowski <mbork-12VZH/wba7B4rM3dGMyr8Q@public.gmane.org> writes:
>> >> 
>> >> > Is such a thing possible in Org-mode?
>> >> 
>> >> Did you check (info "(Org)Tracking your habits") ?
>> >
>> > As I mentioned (though only in the subject), yes. This is close,
>> > but my point is not "I want to do this at least once each three
>> > days" or something like this, but rather "I want to spend at least
>> > 180 minutes every week on this" - regardless of days. Of course, I
>> > could do it with the habits module (and if there's no other
>> > solution, I will do it like this), but what I'd like to have is
>> > actually a mixture of habits and effort estimates/clocking.
>> 
>> No problem for that.
>> 
>> - For the sake of facility, give a unique tag to your "educational"
>> task
>> 
>> - Clock to your task each time you work on it
>> 
>> - Whenever you want to check whether you did work enough or not,
>> launch the agenda view for the current week (`v w' in case you say
>> the current day by default)
>> 
>> - Ask for the display of the clock report (`C-u R')
>> 
>> - Filter on your educational task
>
> Thanks, that is brilliant!  It is /almost/ what I was looking for.
> (One thing that is missing might be fancy coloring, say red for things
> I devoted too little time to etc.  I guess this might be actually
> implemented using properties and some hooks - I'll try to look into it
> some day.)  Now I only need to automate it (which should be easy with
> custom agenda views, I guess.)  Thanks!

Automate it: yes, go for custom agenda view.

Re: colors, one way is to put an effort on the task, and you'll see your
consumption regarding that cut-off value; whenever you're above it, your
clocked time becomes red.

Limitation: the effort is supposed to represent a big total or a daily amount
(see property ":CLOCK_MODELINE_TOTAL: today"). Though, there is no such thing
for a weekly limit.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: A mix of habits and effort estimates?

[Bernt Hansen]

"Sebastien Vauban"
<wxhgmqzgwmuf-geNee64TY+gS+FvcfC7Uqw@public.gmane.org> writes:

> Limitation: the effort is supposed to represent a big total or a daily amount
> (see property ":CLOCK_MODELINE_TOTAL: today"). Though, there is no such thing
> for a weekly limit.

If you set CLOCK_MODELINE_TOTAL to repeat you can use any interval you
like.  Clock in and out of the task repeatedly until you hit your effort
limit or are done then mark the task done and the total clocked time
resets for the next period.  I use this for my habit 'Update org-mode doc'
task which repeats .+1w/1m

Regards,
Bernt

Re: A mix of habits and effort estimates?

[Memnon Anon]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:

> As I mentioned (though only in the subject), yes.  This is close, but
> my point is not "I want to do this at least once each three days" or
> something like this, but rather "I want to spend at least 180 minutes
> every week on this" - regardless of days.  Of course, I could do it
> with the habits module (and if there's no other solution, I will do it
> like this), but what I'd like to have is actually a mixture of habits
> and effort estimates/clocking.

Maybe a dedicated subtree like this:

------------------------------------------------------------
* Learn Tasks							      :learn:
  :PROPERTIES:
  :COLUMNS: %10ITEM %16SCHEDULED %5Effort{+} %5CLOCKSUM{+} 
  :END:
** Learn Italian
*** W11 [2013-03-17 So]
    DEADLINE: <2013-03-17 So>
    :PROPERTIES:
    :Effort:   3:00
    :END:
**** STRT Task 1
     SCHEDULED: <2013-03-11 Mo>
    :LOGBOOK:
    CLOCK: [2013-03-16 Sa 13:12]--[2013-03-16 Sa 14:50] =>  1:38
    CLOCK: [2013-03-13 Mi 13:12]--[2013-03-13 Mi 14:12] =>  1:00
    - State "STRT"       from "TODO"       [2013-03-17 So 13:11]
    CLOCK: [2013-03-12 Di 13:11]--[2013-03-12 Di 13:30] =>  0:19
    :END:
** Learn Elisp
*** W11 [2013-03-17 So]
    DEADLINE: <2013-03-17 So>
    :PROPERTIES:
    :Effort:   3:00
    :END:
**** STRT Task 2
     SCHEDULED: <2013-03-14 Do>
    :LOGBOOK:
    - State "STRT"       from "TODO"       [2013-03-17 So 13:21]
    CLOCK: [2013-03-16 Sa 13:12]--[2013-03-16 Sa 14:50] =>  1:38
    CLOCK: [2013-03-13 Mi 13:12]--[2013-03-13 Mi 14:12] =>  1:00
    - State "STRT"       from "TODO"       [2013-03-17 So 13:11]
    CLOCK: [2013-03-12 Di 13:11]--[2013-03-12 Di 13:30] =>  0:19
    :END:
------------------------------------------------------------

What it does:
- We have a tree `Learn Tasks' with tag `learn' (you use inheritance,
  don't you?), plus a dedicated column view for it.
- Each subtask of that is a project like `Learn Italian'
- Each project has subtrees that represent your weekly units.
  You can deadline them to sunday (with a special warning time if
  wanted) so they will come up eventually in your agenda.
  On this level, you can also set up your weekly time budget as 
  an effort.
- You can either clock the weekly units themselves or create 
  subtasks which represent real actions like `learn about defun'
  which you can schedule (and reschedule) as you like e.g. each
  morning.

At the end of the week, you go to your `Learn Tasks' Tree, expand it 
as much as you want to and do a `C-c C-x C-c' to get an overview.
If you get rid of the `W11' part in the headlines of weekly units, you
can simply org-clone-subtree-with-timeshift the subtree for next week as
is. 

hth
Memnon

Re: A mix of habits and effort estimates?

[Daimrod]

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Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:

> Hi list,

Hi Marcin,

> say that I'd like to learn a new language or something.  I'd like to
> devote, say, 180 minutes to it each week.  Does anyone have an idea how
> to achieve something like that in Org-mode:
>
> * I create a task (say, "Learn Italian")
> * I clock in/out when I start/stop doing this
> * I have a few other tasks like that
> * and somehow, org-magically, I can view a weekly report summarizing
>   whether I spent too much or too little time on different projects.
>
> Is such a thing possible in Org-mode?  I suspect that it might be
> doable, maybe with effort estimates and/or column view (which I don't
> use, but I can as well start using it), but it might also require some
> elisp hacking.  Does anyone have a setup for something like this?

Not exactly what you're looking for, but, there is org-drill[1] a
« flashcards and spaced repetition » system that will "optimize" when to
review items.

[1] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/org-drill.html

-- 
Daimrod/Greg

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Re: A mix of habits and effort estimates?

[Marcin Borkowski]

Dnia 2013-03-17, o godz. 10:51:09
Daimrod <daimrod@gmail.com> napisał(a):

> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
> 
> > Hi list,
> 
> Hi Marcin,
> 
> > say that I'd like to learn a new language or something.  I'd like to
> > devote, say, 180 minutes to it each week.  Does anyone have an idea
> > how to achieve something like that in Org-mode:
> >
> > * I create a task (say, "Learn Italian")
> > * I clock in/out when I start/stop doing this
> > * I have a few other tasks like that
> > * and somehow, org-magically, I can view a weekly report summarizing
> >   whether I spent too much or too little time on different projects.
> >
> > Is such a thing possible in Org-mode?  I suspect that it might be
> > doable, maybe with effort estimates and/or column view (which I
> > don't use, but I can as well start using it), but it might also
> > require some elisp hacking.  Does anyone have a setup for something
> > like this?
> 
> Not exactly what you're looking for, but, there is org-drill[1] a
> « flashcards and spaced repetition » system that will "optimize" when
> to review items.
> 
> [1] http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/org-drill.html

Thanks.  My example was not very good - indeed, to learn Italian, your
way would be better (and I say it as a long-time SuperMemo user, now
waiting for some spare time to try out org-drill).  But for other things
(not necessarily connected with learning), I'd like just to (i)
assign /at least/ some time a week to them and (ii) limit this time so
that I don't spend /too much/ time on it.

But thanks anyway!

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Adam Mickiewicz University