How to define a start date for a task?

How to define a start date for a task?

[Karl Maihofer]

Hi,

when I used Omnifocus for my task management I made heavy use of 
start dates to keep unavailable 
tasks from my tasks lists. If you for example create a task 
"Buy new DVD" this task should not be shown in 
your lists until the DVD is published and available.

Is there a possibility to define start dates in Org?

Regards,
Karl

Re: How to define a start date for a task?

[Karl Voit]

* Karl Maihofer <ignoramus@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> when I used Omnifocus for my task management I made heavy use of 
> start dates to keep unavailable 
> tasks from my tasks lists. If you for example create a task 
> "Buy new DVD" this task should not be shown in 
> your lists until the DVD is published and available.

Three things I am using can help you:

1) Use warning periods together with DEADLINE or SCHEDULED: «You can
specify a different lead time for warnings for a specific deadlines
using the following syntax. Here is an example with a warning period
of 5 days DEADLINE: <2004-02-29 Sun -5d>.»

2) Use http://orgmode.org/org.html#TODO-dependencies

3) http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/org-depend.html

-- 
Karl Voit

Re: How to define a start date for a task?

[Karl Maihofer]

Karl Voit <devnull <at> Karl-Voit.at> writes:
> Three things I am using can help you:
> 
> 1) Use warning periods together with DEADLINE or SCHEDULED: «You can
> specify a different lead time for warnings for a specific deadlines
> using the following syntax. Here is an example with a warning period
> of 5 days DEADLINE: <2004-02-29 Sun -5d>.»
> 
> 2) Use http://orgmode.org/org.html#TODO-dependencies
> 
> 3) http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/org-depend.html

I'm not sure if this helps. What I'd like to archive is that an unavailable 
task is not shown when I do an  agenda search for all tasks for example. 
I do not want the task to show up on my daily agenda when it 
becomes available. When the start date arrived the agenda search for all 
tasks should show the task.

Is this possible?

Thanks for your help!

Regards!
Karl

Re: How to define a start date for a task?

[Bernt Hansen]

Karl Maihofer <ignoramus@gmx.de> writes:

> Karl Voit <devnull <at> Karl-Voit.at> writes:
>> Three things I am using can help you:
>> 
>> 1) Use warning periods together with DEADLINE or SCHEDULED: «You can
>> specify a different lead time for warnings for a specific deadlines
>> using the following syntax. Here is an example with a warning period
>> of 5 days DEADLINE: <2004-02-29 Sun -5d>.»
>> 
>> 2) Use http://orgmode.org/org.html#TODO-dependencies
>> 
>> 3) http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/org-depend.html
>

Hi Karl M,

I assume you have a few typos in the following description:

> I'm not sure if this helps. What I'd like to archive is that an unavailable 
                                               ^^^^^^^
                                               achieve
> task is not shown when I do an  agenda search for all tasks for example. 
> I do not want the task to show up on my daily agenda when it 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       not want the task to show up [only] on my daily agenda
> becomes available. When the start date arrived the agenda search for all 
> tasks should show the task.
>
> Is this possible?
>
> Thanks for your help!

;; Keep tasks with scheduled dates in the future off the global todo lists
(setq org-agenda-todo-ignore-scheduled 'future)

; For tag searches ignore tasks with scheduled tasks too
(setq org-agenda-tags-todo-honor-ignore-options t)

Schedule your task into the future.  It should no longer show up in
global todo or tags searches until that date arrives - at which point it
will be in all lists.

There are similar settings for deadline and plain timestamps.

,----
| org-agenda-tags-todo-honor-ignore-options is a variable defined in `org-agenda.el'.
| Its value is t
| 
| Documentation:
| Non-nil means honor todo-list ...ignore options also in tags-todo search.
| The variables
|    `org-agenda-todo-ignore-with-date',
|    `org-agenda-todo-ignore-timestamp',
|    `org-agenda-todo-ignore-scheduled',
|    `org-agenda-todo-ignore-deadlines'
| make the global TODO list skip entries that have time stamps of certain
| kinds.  If this option is set, the same options will also apply for the
| tags-todo search, which is the general tags/property matcher
| restricted to unfinished TODO entries only.
| 
| You can customize this variable.
`----

Regards,
Bernt

Re: How to define a start date for a task?

[Karl Maihofer]

Hi Bernt,

Bernt Hansen <bernt <at> norang.ca> writes:
> I assume you have a few typos in the following description:
> > I'm not sure if this helps. What I'd like to archive is that an unavailable 
>                                                ^^^^^^^
>                                                achieve

Of course, that is a typo. ;-)

> > I do not want the task to show up on my daily agenda when it 
> > becomes available.
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        not want the task to show up [only] on my daily agenda

But that is not a typo. 

Correct me, but with your solution, tasks become available 
(schedule date arrives) and then they will show up on the 
daily agenda. And they will show up there every day until 
I mark the task as done. That is not really what I'd like 
to achieve (not archive!) since tasks with start dates are 
tasks I can do when the start date arrived but do not have 
to do on a special date.

My workflow is as follows: I have a look at my daily agenda 
to find out what I have to do that day. There I can find 
tasks that are scheduled or have a deadline. When I finished 
these tasks and still have time to do some more work, I do 
agenda searches for tags and/or todo keywords. So, tasks 
with only a start date should never show up on my daily 
agenda. They should be hidden from all agenda searches until 
the start date arrives. Until then they should be available 
for all agenda searches (but they should not show up on the 
daily agenda list until I define a schedule date).

Is that also possible or am I the only person that has a 
need for this? ;-)

Thanks for your help!

Regards,
Karl

Re: How to define a start date for a task?

[Viktor Rosenfeld]

Hi,

you could enter the start using an inactive timestamp (optionally as a
property value). Then the entry would not show up on the agenda. The
"Advanced searching" tutorial on Worg explains how you can search for
inactive timestamps or property values:

http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/advanced-searching.html#special-properties

Cheers,
Viktor

Karl Maihofer wrote:

> Hi Bernt,
> 
> Bernt Hansen <bernt <at> norang.ca> writes:
> > I assume you have a few typos in the following description:
> > > I'm not sure if this helps. What I'd like to archive is that an unavailable 
> >                                                ^^^^^^^
> >                                                achieve
> 
> Of course, that is a typo. ;-)
> 
> > > I do not want the task to show up on my daily agenda when it 
> > > becomes available.
> >        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >        not want the task to show up [only] on my daily agenda
> 
> But that is not a typo. 
> 
> Correct me, but with your solution, tasks become available 
> (schedule date arrives) and then they will show up on the 
> daily agenda. And they will show up there every day until 
> I mark the task as done. That is not really what I'd like 
> to achieve (not archive!) since tasks with start dates are 
> tasks I can do when the start date arrived but do not have 
> to do on a special date.
> 
> My workflow is as follows: I have a look at my daily agenda 
> to find out what I have to do that day. There I can find 
> tasks that are scheduled or have a deadline. When I finished 
> these tasks and still have time to do some more work, I do 
> agenda searches for tags and/or todo keywords. So, tasks 
> with only a start date should never show up on my daily 
> agenda. They should be hidden from all agenda searches until 
> the start date arrives. Until then they should be available 
> for all agenda searches (but they should not show up on the 
> daily agenda list until I define a schedule date).
> 
> Is that also possible or am I the only person that has a 
> need for this? ;-)
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> Regards,
> Karl
> 
> 

Re: How to define a start date for a task?

[Karl Maihofer]

Hi Viktor,

Viktor Rosenfeld <listuser36 <at> googlemail.com> writes:
> you could enter the start using an inactive timestamp (optionally as a
> property value). Then the entry would not show up on the agenda.  The
> "Advanced searching" tutorial on Worg explains how you can search for
> inactive timestamps or property values:
> http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/advanced-searching.html
> #special-properties

Thank you! That is interesting. Is my understanding correct, that you 
meant something like the following.

* TODO Task, that can be completed tomorrow or later
  START: [2011-12-19 Mon]

This task will not show up on the daily agenda tomorrow since the 
timestamp is inactive. But it is still shown its the agenda task list 
today. What I have to do now is to write a custom agenda search that 
shows me all tasks that do not have a start timestamp or a start 
timestamp in the past or today. This search would hide tasks with a 
start date in the future.

Is this what you mean?

Regards,
Karl 

Re: How to define a start date for a task?

[Bernt Hansen]

Karl Maihofer <ignoramus@gmx.de> writes:

> Bernt Hansen <bernt <at> norang.ca> writes:
>> I assume you have a few typos in the following description:
>> > I'm not sure if this helps. What I'd like to archive is that an unavailable 
>>                                                ^^^^^^^
>>                                                achieve
>
> Of course, that is a typo. ;-)
>
>> > I do not want the task to show up on my daily agenda when it 
>> > becomes available.
>>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>        not want the task to show up [only] on my daily agenda
>
> But that is not a typo. 
>

Ah - sorry about that.

> Correct me, but with your solution, tasks become available 
> (schedule date arrives) and then they will show up on the 
> daily agenda. And they will show up there every day until 
> I mark the task as done. That is not really what I'd like 
> to achieve (not archive!) since tasks with start dates are 
> tasks I can do when the start date arrived but do not have 
> to do on a special date.

That is essentially what SCHEDULED: is for.  It shows up on the
scheduled (start) date and stays on your daily agenda until you mark it
done.

If the task is supposed to be on a specific date I just put a plain date
stamp on it (without the SCHEDULED: prefix)  I use this for appointments
etc which have a fixed date and time.

>
> My workflow is as follows: I have a look at my daily agenda 
> to find out what I have to do that day. There I can find 
> tasks that are scheduled or have a deadline. When I finished 

The use of SCHEDULED in org-mode can be confusing.
From the org-mode manual

,----
| SCHEDULED
|      Meaning: you are planning to start working on that task on the
|      given date.
| 
|      The headline will be listed under the given date(1).  In addition,
|      a reminder that the scheduled date has passed will be present in
|      the compilation for _today_, until the entry is marked DONE, i.e.
|      the task will automatically be forwarded until completed.
| 
|           *** TODO Call Trillian for a date on New Years Eve.
|               SCHEDULED: <2004-12-25 Sat>
| 
|      Important: Scheduling an item in Org-mode should not be understood
|      in the same way that we understand scheduling a meeting.  Setting
|      a date for a meeting is just a simple appointment, you should mark
|      this entry with a simple plain timestamp, to get this item shown
|      on the date where it applies.  This is a frequent misunderstanding
|      by Org users.  In Org-mode, scheduling means setting a date when
|      you want to start working on an action item.
`----

> these tasks and still have time to do some more work, I do 
> agenda searches for tags and/or todo keywords. So, tasks 
> with only a start date should never show up on my daily 
> agenda. They should be hidden from all agenda searches until 
> the start date arrives. Until then they should be available 
> for all agenda searches (but they should not show up on the 
> daily agenda list until I define a schedule date).
>
> Is that also possible or am I the only person that has a 
> need for this? ;-)

I think you'll need to write a custom agenda skip function that skips
your tasks with an inactive START: [date] in the future.  I don't know
of a way to apply a custom skip function to the global todo and tags
searches so you'll probably need to use custom agenda searches for this.

Regards,
Bernt

Re: How to define a start date for a task?

[Karl Maihofer]

Bernt Hansen <bernt <at> norang.ca> writes:
> I think you'll need to write a custom agenda skip function that skips
> your tasks with an inactive START: [date] in the future.  I don't know
> of a way to apply a custom skip function to the global todo and tags
> searches so you'll probably need to use custom agenda searches for this.

I use (setq org-agenda-filter-preset '("-someday")) to skip tasks with
the tag "someday" in my agenda views. But I think it is only possible
to use tags here. 

Isn't there an equivalent where I can put something like 
"-'START: $TIMESTAMP_IA > <today>'"?

Re: How to define a start date for a task?

[Viktor Rosenfeld]

Hi,

> Thank you! That is interesting. Is my understanding correct, that you 
> meant something like the following.
> 
> * TODO Task, that can be completed tomorrow or later
>   START: [2011-12-19 Mon]

Either like this (which can be queried using TIMESTAMP_IA="<2011-12-19
Mon>" or using a property (START="<...>"):

* TODO Task
  :PROPERTIES:
  :START: [2011-12-19 Mon]
  :END:

> This task will not show up on the daily agenda tomorrow since the 
> timestamp is inactive. But it is still shown its the agenda task list 
> today. 

I don't understand why it would show today. The date is in the future
(and it's not a deadline) and the timestamp is inactive. It should not
show up at all, unless the variable
org-agenda-include-inactive-timestamps is set.

> What I have to do now is to write a custom agenda search that 
> shows me all tasks that do not have a start timestamp or a start 
> timestamp in the past or today. This search would hide tasks with a 
> start date in the future.

I'm not sure how one can query for tasks that do not have a property. A
possible work-around would be querying for all tasks and then using a
skip function to discard those have a start date in the future.

Cheers,
Viktor

Re: How to define a start date for a task?

[Karl Maihofer]

Hi Viktor,

Viktor Rosenfeld <listuser36 <at> googlemail.com> writes:
> I don't understand why it would show today. The date is in the future
> (and it's not a deadline) and the timestamp is inactive. It should not
> show up at all, unless the variable
> org-agenda-include-inactive-timestamps is set.

What I meant is that such a task is not shown on the daily agenda
but when I use the agenda to search for all tasks, it is still in the
list even if the start date is in the future since inactive 
timestamps are not recognized by the agenda at all.

> I'm not sure how one can query for tasks that do not have a property. A
> possible work-around would be querying for all tasks and then using a
> skip function to discard those have a start date in the future.

The best way would be to to globally exclude such tasks from all
agenda searches as it is possible for tags with 
(setq org-agenda-filter-preset '("-tag")).

But as Bernt wrote this seems to be impossible right now. Or does
anybody know how to manage this?

Regards,
Karl

Re: How to define a start date for a task?

[Viktor Rosenfeld]

Karl Maihofer wrote:

> Hi Viktor,
> 
> Viktor Rosenfeld <listuser36 <at> googlemail.com> writes:
> > I don't understand why it would show today. The date is in the future
> > (and it's not a deadline) and the timestamp is inactive. It should not
> > show up at all, unless the variable
> > org-agenda-include-inactive-timestamps is set.
> 
> What I meant is that such a task is not shown on the daily agenda
> but when I use the agenda to search for all tasks, it is still in the
> list even if the start date is in the future since inactive 
> timestamps are not recognized by the agenda at all.

Do you mean the default "t" search from the agenda menu? You can write
your own search that excludes these tasks. Either write a custom skip
function or use org-agenda-todo-ignore-with-date or
org-agenda-todo-ignore-timestamp (not sure if these operate on inactive
timestamps).

Cheers,
Viktor