[OT] How do you keep your reference data?

[OT] How do you keep your reference data?

[Marcelo de Moraes Serpa]

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Hi list!

Information that has no potential next action associated but that still has
potential reference value and that you'd like to keep around, how and where
do you keep it ?

I usually check - if it is related to a project, I put it in this project's
wiki page (a simple .org ASCII file named after the project under ~/org/wiki
folder). If it's not, I try to find out if there's a wiki page that I could
fit it into, if not, I create a new file under the wiki folder.

I used to use tomboy, but I'm trying to move/center all my data to my org
folder. I still use Tomboy for quick notes (collection-phase) though, but
not for reference.

I then have a simple function that searches (rgrep) through the whole ~/org
folder, so that whenever I want to check if I have something about subject
x, I just rgrep my PIM folder.

;;a little elisp func to rgrep through all my org directory
(defun org-rgrep (REGEXP1) "Searches through all my org/PIM files"
(interactive "sSearch PIM for: ") (rgrep REGEXP1 "*.org" "/home/marcelo/org"
))
;;bind the previous function to windows_key + o
(global-set-key [?\s-o] 'org-rgrep)

Would you mind sharing how you do it?

Thanks,

Marcelo.

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Re: [OT] How do you keep your reference data?

[jemarch]

   Information that has no potential next action associated but that
   still has potential reference value and that you'd like to keep
   around, how and where do you keep it ?

For that purpose I use an org file called ref.org with the following
structure:

  --- begin of ref.org
  -*- mode: org -*-

  * 0                              :REF0:
  * 1                              :REF1:
  ...
  * A                              :REFA:
  * B                              :REFB:
  ...
  * Z                              :REFZ:
  --- end of ref.org

The second-level headers are then the knowledge entries.  To see the
entries in the agenda I use the following custom:

(setq org-agenda-custom-commands '( ... other entries ...
                                   ("r0" tags "+REF0" nil)
                                   ...
                                   ("ra" tags "+REFA" nil)
                                   ("rb" tags "+REFB" nil)
                                   ...
                                   ("rz" tags "+REFZ" nil)))

                           
Then I can use C-aC-cr<LETTER>, where C-aC-c is the agenda command in
my system and LETTER is the letter (or digit) I want to see the
entries for.

It is not very sophisticated, but it works nicely for me :)

-- 
Jose E. Marchesi    jemarch@gnu.org
GNU Project         http://www.gnu.org

Re: [OT] How do you keep your reference data?

[Bernt Hansen]

Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com> writes:

> Information that has no potential next action associated but that
> still has potential reference value and that you'd like to keep
> around, how and where do you keep it ?
>
> I usually check - if it is related to a project, I put it in this
> project's wiki page (a simple .org ASCII file named after the project
> under ~/org/wiki folder). If it's not, I try to find out if there's a
> wiki page that I could fit it into, if not, I create a new file under
> the wiki folder.
>
> I used to use tomboy, but I'm trying to move/center all my data to my
> org folder. I still use Tomboy for quick notes (collection-phase)
> though, but not for reference.
>
> I then have a simple function that searches (rgrep) through the whole
> ~/org folder, so that whenever I want to check if I have something
> about subject x, I just rgrep my PIM folder.
>
> ;;a little elisp func to rgrep through all my org directory
> (defun org-rgrep (REGEXP1) "Searches through all my org/PIM files" (interactive "sSearch PIM for: ")
> (rgrep REGEXP1 "*.org" "/home/marcelo/org" ))
> ;;bind the previous function to windows_key + o
> (global-set-key [?\s-o] 'org-rgrep)
>  
> Would you mind sharing how you do it?

Hi Marcelo,

I keep all my notes in .org files.  Some of these are dedicated for
reference documentation only and may be exported to other formats for
consumption by others.  A good example of this is my org-mode document
at http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html.

Reference material that does not end up in a dedicated document lives in
an org file without a TODO keyword and with a tag of NOTE.  Where it
resides is solely based on content.

If it's part of a project task it gets filed under the project
somewhere.  This is normally project-related notes that don't make sense
to keep outside the project.  If the project is archived using archive
by subtree the notes go with it.

If it's general information related to an org file I file it under a
level 1 * Notes entry in the appropriate org file.  If the org file is
included in my org-agenda-files I can locate the notes easily with an
agenda search.  If I drop the file from org-agenda-files then the notes
for that file are also dropped on agenda searches.  The notes are
forever available in the .org file.

Finally as a last resort notes go as a level 2 entry in todo.org under
the level 1 * Notes entry.

HTH,
Bernt

Re: [OT] How do you keep your reference data?

[Marcelo de Moraes Serpa]

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Hi Bernt,

I liked your self-contained approach, and I will try implementing it in my
workflow. Org does not stop amazing me on how flexible it is :)

However, the value of having a wiki is also great IMO. It has a workflow
similar to tomboy (each new org file acts as a new tomboy note) I don't have
to think too much when creating a wiki page (just type
TheNameOfTheSubject.org, save it and begin typing, they are in a central
location (a wiki folder) and they are a great place to register knowledge
data.

I don't know, that might be because I used WikiDPad for a long time on my
Windows days and loved its approach (Two things that org lacks as a
wiki-system, which is a way to view the wiki in a tree format and
automatically create links based on files in the filesystem or camelcase.
Not big deal features, but something that could be contributed as a org
extension - I would do it if I had the elisp knowledge to do so :))

Regards,

Marcelo.

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:

> Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Information that has no potential next action associated but that
> > still has potential reference value and that you'd like to keep
> > around, how and where do you keep it ?
> >
> > I usually check - if it is related to a project, I put it in this
> > project's wiki page (a simple .org ASCII file named after the project
> > under ~/org/wiki folder). If it's not, I try to find out if there's a
> > wiki page that I could fit it into, if not, I create a new file under
> > the wiki folder.
> >
> > I used to use tomboy, but I'm trying to move/center all my data to my
> > org folder. I still use Tomboy for quick notes (collection-phase)
> > though, but not for reference.
> >
> > I then have a simple function that searches (rgrep) through the whole
> > ~/org folder, so that whenever I want to check if I have something
> > about subject x, I just rgrep my PIM folder.
> >
> > ;;a little elisp func to rgrep through all my org directory
> > (defun org-rgrep (REGEXP1) "Searches through all my org/PIM files"
> (interactive "sSearch PIM for: ")
> > (rgrep REGEXP1 "*.org" "/home/marcelo/org" ))
> > ;;bind the previous function to windows_key + o
> > (global-set-key [?\s-o] 'org-rgrep)
> >
> > Would you mind sharing how you do it?
>
> Hi Marcelo,
>
> I keep all my notes in .org files.  Some of these are dedicated for
> reference documentation only and may be exported to other formats for
> consumption by others.  A good example of this is my org-mode document
> at http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html.
>
> Reference material that does not end up in a dedicated document lives in
> an org file without a TODO keyword and with a tag of NOTE.  Where it
> resides is solely based on content.
>
> If it's part of a project task it gets filed under the project
> somewhere.  This is normally project-related notes that don't make sense
> to keep outside the project.  If the project is archived using archive
> by subtree the notes go with it.
>
> If it's general information related to an org file I file it under a
> level 1 * Notes entry in the appropriate org file.  If the org file is
> included in my org-agenda-files I can locate the notes easily with an
> agenda search.  If I drop the file from org-agenda-files then the notes
> for that file are also dropped on agenda searches.  The notes are
> forever available in the .org file.
>
> Finally as a last resort notes go as a level 2 entry in todo.org under
> the level 1 * Notes entry.
>
> HTH,
> Bernt
>
>
>

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Re: [OT] How do you keep your reference data?

[Marcelo de Moraes Serpa]

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@Jemarch:

I don't like having a big text file for reference, I have tried it before
and the file got so big that emacs started having troubles rendering it. At
that time, however, I was using a previous version of emacs and org, and I
probably didn't compiled org, so, the rendering problems might just have
been a isolated issue.

Thanks for sharing your experiences,

Marcelo.


On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <
celoserpa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Bernt,
>
> I liked your self-contained approach, and I will try implementing it in my
> workflow. Org does not stop amazing me on how flexible it is :)
>
> However, the value of having a wiki is also great IMO. It has a workflow
> similar to tomboy (each new org file acts as a new tomboy note) I don't have
> to think too much when creating a wiki page (just type
> TheNameOfTheSubject.org, save it and begin typing, they are in a central
> location (a wiki folder) and they are a great place to register knowledge
> data.
>
> I don't know, that might be because I used WikiDPad for a long time on my
> Windows days and loved its approach (Two things that org lacks as a
> wiki-system, which is a way to view the wiki in a tree format and
> automatically create links based on files in the filesystem or camelcase.
> Not big deal features, but something that could be contributed as a org
> extension - I would do it if I had the elisp knowledge to do so :))
>
> Regards,
>
> Marcelo.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 8:09 AM, Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:
>
>> Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > Information that has no potential next action associated but that
>> > still has potential reference value and that you'd like to keep
>> > around, how and where do you keep it ?
>> >
>> > I usually check - if it is related to a project, I put it in this
>> > project's wiki page (a simple .org ASCII file named after the project
>> > under ~/org/wiki folder). If it's not, I try to find out if there's a
>> > wiki page that I could fit it into, if not, I create a new file under
>> > the wiki folder.
>> >
>> > I used to use tomboy, but I'm trying to move/center all my data to my
>> > org folder. I still use Tomboy for quick notes (collection-phase)
>> > though, but not for reference.
>> >
>> > I then have a simple function that searches (rgrep) through the whole
>> > ~/org folder, so that whenever I want to check if I have something
>> > about subject x, I just rgrep my PIM folder.
>> >
>> > ;;a little elisp func to rgrep through all my org directory
>> > (defun org-rgrep (REGEXP1) "Searches through all my org/PIM files"
>> (interactive "sSearch PIM for: ")
>> > (rgrep REGEXP1 "*.org" "/home/marcelo/org" ))
>> > ;;bind the previous function to windows_key + o
>> > (global-set-key [?\s-o] 'org-rgrep)
>> >
>> > Would you mind sharing how you do it?
>>
>> Hi Marcelo,
>>
>> I keep all my notes in .org files.  Some of these are dedicated for
>> reference documentation only and may be exported to other formats for
>> consumption by others.  A good example of this is my org-mode document
>> at http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html.
>>
>> Reference material that does not end up in a dedicated document lives in
>> an org file without a TODO keyword and with a tag of NOTE.  Where it
>> resides is solely based on content.
>>
>> If it's part of a project task it gets filed under the project
>> somewhere.  This is normally project-related notes that don't make sense
>> to keep outside the project.  If the project is archived using archive
>> by subtree the notes go with it.
>>
>> If it's general information related to an org file I file it under a
>> level 1 * Notes entry in the appropriate org file.  If the org file is
>> included in my org-agenda-files I can locate the notes easily with an
>> agenda search.  If I drop the file from org-agenda-files then the notes
>> for that file are also dropped on agenda searches.  The notes are
>> forever available in the .org file.
>>
>> Finally as a last resort notes go as a level 2 entry in todo.org under
>> the level 1 * Notes entry.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Bernt
>>
>>
>>
>

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Re: [OT] How do you keep your reference data?

[Bernt Hansen]

Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com> writes:

> I liked your self-contained approach, and I will try implementing it
> in my workflow. Org does not stop amazing me on how flexible it is :)
>
> However, the value of having a wiki is also great IMO. It has a
> workflow similar to tomboy (each new org file acts as a new tomboy
> note) I don't have to think too much when creating a wiki page (just
> type TheNameOfTheSubject.org, save it and begin typing, they are in a
> central location (a wiki folder) and they are a great place to
> register knowledge data.
>
> I don't know, that might be because I used WikiDPad for a long time on
> my Windows days and loved its approach (Two things that org lacks as a
> wiki-system, which is a way to view the wiki in a tree format and
> automatically create links based on files in the filesystem or
> camelcase. Not big deal features, but something that could be
> contributed as a org extension - I would do it if I had the elisp
> knowledge to do so :))

I used to use a wiki ... but I personally prefer the org->HTML export
sequence to a wiki.  All of my documents are available in org-mode
source.

I don't have the need to have multiple users edit the same source (which
is the whole point of a wiki IMO).  Wiki's have other issues if they are
world editable - like spam bots and other things which I just didn't
want to deal with.

I found the org-mode format with export at least as powerful as the
wiki's I've used.  If you community of people working on the same
content where some of them don't use org-mode then a wiki probably makes
sense.

I just don't need it for my workflow.

-Bernt

Re: [OT] How do you keep your reference data?

[Marcelo de Moraes Serpa]

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In the end, what matters is having the date you need. I think that, we are
so used to the document-per-file concept that we often forget that, in the
end, it's all bytes.

Let me elaborate. Having one big file for reference, that is well tagged can
be more efficient and simpler than having several files (maybe one subject
per file, the way I'm doing, like a wiki) and integrates better with the way
org works.

In the end, what matters is finding the data you want, and if you tag it
well, it's easier. In my wiki-like-approach, I don't have any tags, I rely
on rgrep to find relevant words, which works fine, but is not as good in the
organizational sense than correctly tagging a entry and finding by tag
(css,html,rails,etc).

Let's say I have a new CSS hack that I just found out, and I'd like to take
note of it in a place where I could easily find it again whenever I need.

My current workflow when I have something to keep as a reference (long-term
note) is this:
- list wiki pages/remember a relevant wiki "page"
- go to this wiki page or create another one - In this case, the page would
be ~/org/wiki/CSS.og
- create a top-level heading about the specific note and paste it below.
Optionally tag the heading (I haven't been doing this).

With you approach, I could just use remember, and by tagging it with
CSS:HACK:, quicker to input, quicker to find it again (search by tag in the
agenda).

However, something in my mind still prefers keeping files in a directory,
each for a subject. It seems cleaner. Seems like a paradigm to break :)

Thanks,

Marcelo.



On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:

> Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I liked your self-contained approach, and I will try implementing it
> > in my workflow. Org does not stop amazing me on how flexible it is :)
> >
> > However, the value of having a wiki is also great IMO. It has a
> > workflow similar to tomboy (each new org file acts as a new tomboy
> > note) I don't have to think too much when creating a wiki page (just
> > type TheNameOfTheSubject.org, save it and begin typing, they are in a
> > central location (a wiki folder) and they are a great place to
> > register knowledge data.
> >
> > I don't know, that might be because I used WikiDPad for a long time on
> > my Windows days and loved its approach (Two things that org lacks as a
> > wiki-system, which is a way to view the wiki in a tree format and
> > automatically create links based on files in the filesystem or
> > camelcase. Not big deal features, but something that could be
> > contributed as a org extension - I would do it if I had the elisp
> > knowledge to do so :))
>
> I used to use a wiki ... but I personally prefer the org->HTML export
> sequence to a wiki.  All of my documents are available in org-mode
> source.
>
> I don't have the need to have multiple users edit the same source (which
> is the whole point of a wiki IMO).  Wiki's have other issues if they are
> world editable - like spam bots and other things which I just didn't
> want to deal with.
>
> I found the org-mode format with export at least as powerful as the
> wiki's I've used.  If you community of people working on the same
> content where some of them don't use org-mode then a wiki probably makes
> sense.
>
> I just don't need it for my workflow.
>
> -Bernt
>
>

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Re: [OT] How do you keep your reference data?

[Marcelo de Moraes Serpa]

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quick correction, in the first paragraph: "... what matters is having the
*data* you need..." - when you need it :)

Marcelo.

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <
celoserpa@gmail.com> wrote:

> In the end, what matters is having the date you need. I think that, we are
> so used to the document-per-file concept that we often forget that, in the
> end, it's all bytes.
>
> Let me elaborate. Having one big file for reference, that is well tagged
> can be more efficient and simpler than having several files (maybe one
> subject per file, the way I'm doing, like a wiki) and integrates better with
> the way org works.
>
> In the end, what matters is finding the data you want, and if you tag it
> well, it's easier. In my wiki-like-approach, I don't have any tags, I rely
> on rgrep to find relevant words, which works fine, but is not as good in the
> organizational sense than correctly tagging a entry and finding by tag
> (css,html,rails,etc).
>
> Let's say I have a new CSS hack that I just found out, and I'd like to take
> note of it in a place where I could easily find it again whenever I need.
>
> My current workflow when I have something to keep as a reference (long-term
> note) is this:
> - list wiki pages/remember a relevant wiki "page"
> - go to this wiki page or create another one - In this case, the page would
> be ~/org/wiki/CSS.og
> - create a top-level heading about the specific note and paste it below.
> Optionally tag the heading (I haven't been doing this).
>
> With you approach, I could just use remember, and by tagging it with
> CSS:HACK:, quicker to input, quicker to find it again (search by tag in the
> agenda).
>
> However, something in my mind still prefers keeping files in a directory,
> each for a subject. It seems cleaner. Seems like a paradigm to break :)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marcelo.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> wrote:
>
>> Marcelo de Moraes Serpa <celoserpa@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > I liked your self-contained approach, and I will try implementing it
>> > in my workflow. Org does not stop amazing me on how flexible it is :)
>> >
>> > However, the value of having a wiki is also great IMO. It has a
>> > workflow similar to tomboy (each new org file acts as a new tomboy
>> > note) I don't have to think too much when creating a wiki page (just
>> > type TheNameOfTheSubject.org, save it and begin typing, they are in a
>> > central location (a wiki folder) and they are a great place to
>> > register knowledge data.
>> >
>> > I don't know, that might be because I used WikiDPad for a long time on
>> > my Windows days and loved its approach (Two things that org lacks as a
>> > wiki-system, which is a way to view the wiki in a tree format and
>> > automatically create links based on files in the filesystem or
>> > camelcase. Not big deal features, but something that could be
>> > contributed as a org extension - I would do it if I had the elisp
>> > knowledge to do so :))
>>
>> I used to use a wiki ... but I personally prefer the org->HTML export
>> sequence to a wiki.  All of my documents are available in org-mode
>> source.
>>
>> I don't have the need to have multiple users edit the same source (which
>> is the whole point of a wiki IMO).  Wiki's have other issues if they are
>> world editable - like spam bots and other things which I just didn't
>> want to deal with.
>>
>> I found the org-mode format with export at least as powerful as the
>> wiki's I've used.  If you community of people working on the same
>> content where some of them don't use org-mode then a wiki probably makes
>> sense.
>>
>> I just don't need it for my workflow.
>>
>> -Bernt
>>
>>
>

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Re: [OT] How do you keep your reference data?

[tycho garen]

On Sun, Nov 08, 2009 at 04:24:39PM -0600, Marcelo de Moraes Serpa wrote:
> Information that has no potential next action associated but that still has
> potential reference value and that you'd like to keep around, how and where
> do you keep it ?

I (too) used to be a wiki person, and indeed I kept a pretty active personal
wiki with novels, research for novels, scholarly work, task
management, and the like all within an instance of Ikiwiki that I ran
locally on my laptop. While I liked the fact that I could create new
wiki pages at whim, and that I didn't need to fight to figure out
where the info fitted in my 'system'.

The problem with the wiki system, for me, is that wikis really need at
want some serious ongoing maintenance and attention to prevent entropy
from taking over. Wikis are about collaboration, and the great thing
about wikis when they work a lot of people have to be there doing
little bits of work: editing, writing, cataloging/categorization,
organization and the like. When it was just me, I never wanted to do
that work.

I wrote a couple of posts about how I'm using org-mode to deal with
the instant collection of useless facts and bits of
information. They're located here:

http://www.tychoish.com/2009/09/fact-files/

http://www.tychoish.com/2009/03/fact-file-and-orbital-mechanics/

----

I'm not an "everything in org and nothing but org" kind of guy. Here's
how my system works, in brief:

- I have a bunch of org files for major projects and spheres of my
  life: my day/employment job, various major writing projects (mostly
  fiction) have their own folders, I have a 'technology and hacking'
  file, I have a general file, and a couple of other odds and
  ends. These files have notes, tasks, projects, and I mostly edit
  them via org-remember, org-agenda, and a little bit of org-refile,
  alas (it would be better to edit these files more organically.) 

- I also have a "data.org" file which I use as a fact file as defined
  in the blog posts. It doesn't really have tasks, though I do have a
  couple of reading-related statuses: "PROCESS" and the like.

- All org files are in their own git repository (~/org/). Major fiction
  projects also have their own git repositories. Smaller projects
  including short fiction, blog writing, and the like all share a
  "writing" git repository. There's also a repo to track content as it
  relates to my day-job work. 

- I sometimes add specific .org files from other repositories and
  locations, to the agenda view.

It seems to work pretty well.

Cheers,
sam

-- 
tycho(ish) @
garen@tychoish.com
http://www.tychoish.com/
http://www.cyborginstitute.com/
"don't get it right, get it written" -- james thurber