BABEL --> PROPERTY?

BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Michael Hannon]

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Hi, Eric.  In a recent thread ("Failure exporting with emacs --batch") on this
list, you mentioned:

>> #+BABEL :exports results
>>
> 
> One item to note is that the #+BABEL: syntax is now deprecated, try
> replacing the above line with the following.
> 
> #+PROPERTY: exports results

I've seen the extended discussion on this list about this change, but I
haven't been able to follow the details.  It seems that there were various
proposals and counter proposals.

Can you (or others) clarify a couple of things for me?

(1) Does "deprecated" mean that the BABEL line will be gone from Org-mode 7.8?

(2) I typically use the following BABEL line:

#+BABEL: :session *R* :cache yes :results output verbatim :exports both :tangle

How would I express that using the PROPERTY syntax?


Thanks,

-- Mike

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Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Christian Moe]

On 11/16/11 9:21 AM, Michael Hannon wrote:
> (2) I typically use the following BABEL line:
>
> #+BABEL: :session *R* :cache yes :results output verbatim :exports
> both :tangle
>
> How would I express that using the PROPERTY syntax?

#+PROPERTY: session *R*
#+PROPERTY: cache yes
#+PROPERTY: results output verbatim
etc.

Or if you've got everything under the same (parent) heading:

* Top-level heading
   :PROPERTIES:
   :session: *R*
   :cache:   yes
   :results: output verbatim
   :exports: both
   :tangle:  yes
   :END:

hth,
Christian

Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Michael Hannon]

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>> (2) I typically use the following BABEL line:
>>
>> #+BABEL: :session *R* :cache yes :results output verbatim :exports
>> both :tangle
>>
>> How would I express that using the PROPERTY syntax?

> #+PROPERTY: session *R*
> #+PROPERTY: cache yes
> #+PROPERTY: results output verbatim
> etc.
> 
> Or if you've got everything under the same (parent) heading:
> 
> * Top-level heading
>   :PROPERTIES:
>   :session: *R*
>   :cache:  yes
>   :results: output verbatim
>   :exports: both
>   :tangle:  yes
>   :END:

Thanks, Christian.  That seems simple enough.  I had a vague recollection that
there was at one time a proposal to have some kind of continuation lines for
multiple properties.

-- Mike

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Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Eric Schulte]

Michael Hannon <jm_hannon@yahoo.com> writes:

>>> (2) I typically use the following BABEL line:
>>>
>>> #+BABEL: :session *R* :cache yes :results output verbatim :exports
>>> both :tangle
>>>
>>> How would I express that using the PROPERTY syntax?
>
>> #+PROPERTY: session *R*
>> #+PROPERTY: cache yes
>> #+PROPERTY: results output verbatim
>> etc.
>> 
>> Or if you've got everything under the same (parent) heading:
>> 
>> * Top-level heading
>>   :PROPERTIES:
>>   :session: *R*
>>   :cache:  yes
>>   :results: output verbatim
>>   :exports: both
>>   :tangle:  yes
>>   :END:
>
> Thanks, Christian.  That seems simple enough.  I had a vague recollection that
> there was at one time a proposal to have some kind of continuation lines for
> multiple properties.
>

That is the case and the (now implemented) result of these discussions
is best described in the commit message shown here.
http://orgmode.org/w/?p=org-mode.git;a=commit;h=3af89e696a32afcc39f2e3bdb6132ac588d530ae

Best -- Eric

>
> -- Mike

-- 
Eric Schulte
http://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte/

Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Michael Hannon]

[...]

>> I had a vague recollection that there was at one time a proposal to have
>> some kind of continuation lines for multiple properties.

> That is the case and the (now implemented) result of these discussions is
> best described in the commit message shown here.
> http://orgmode.org/w/?p=org-mode.git;a=commit;h=3af89e696a32afcc39f2e3bdb6132a

Thanks, Eric.

-- Mike

Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hi Michael,

Michael Hannon wrote:
> Hi, Eric.  In a recent thread ("Failure exporting with emacs --batch") on this
> list, you mentioned:
>
>>> #+BABEL :exports results
>>>
>> 
>> One item to note is that the #+BABEL: syntax is now deprecated, try
>> replacing the above line with the following.
>> 
>> #+PROPERTY: exports results
>
> I've seen the extended discussion on this list about this change, but I
> haven't been able to follow the details.  It seems that there were various
> proposals and counter proposals.
>
> Can you (or others) clarify a couple of things for me?
>
> (1) Does "deprecated" mean that the BABEL line will be gone from Org-mode 7.8?

Yes.

> (2) I typically use the following BABEL line:
>
> #+BABEL: :session *R* :cache yes :results output verbatim :exports both :tangle
>
> How would I express that using the PROPERTY syntax?

#+PROPERTY:  session *R*
#+PROPERTY:  cache yes
#+PROPERTY:  results output verbatim
#+PROPERTY:  exports both
#+PROPERTY:  tangle yes

Note that I added a "yes" value for the "tangle" property. That was missing
from your BABEL line.

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Nick Dokos]

Sebastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf@spammotel.com> wrote:


> > (1) Does "deprecated" mean that the BABEL line will be gone from Org-mode=
>  7.8?
> 
> Yes.
> 

AFAIK, if you are pulling from the git repo, it's already gone: it's
been gone since Oct. 20 or so.

Nick

Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Michael Hannon]

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>>> (1) Does "deprecated" mean that the BABEL line will be gone from Org-mode=
>>>  7.8?
>>
>> Yes.
>>

> AFAIK, if you are pulling from the git repo, it's already gone: it's
> been gone since Oct. 20 or so.

Heh.  Thanks, Nick.  I AM running with a copy from the git repo, but I've been
afraid to pull any fresh copies lately, for fear of breaking my set-up.  (It's
also true that I haven't had any compelling reason to get, or git, a new copy
lately, so this behavior is perhaps not quite as stupid as it must seem.)

-- Mike

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Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Michael Hannon]

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>> [...]
>> (1) Does "deprecated" mean that the BABEL line will be gone from Org-mode
>> 7.8?

> Yes.

Hi, Seb.  Thanks for confirming this.

>> (2) I typically use the following BABEL line:
>>
>> #+BABEL: :session *R* :cache yes :results output verbatim :exports both
>> :tangle
>>
>> How would I express that using the PROPERTY syntax?
>
> #+PROPERTY:  session *R*
> #+PROPERTY:  cache yes
> #+PROPERTY:  results output verbatim
> #+PROPERTY:  exports both
> #+PROPERTY:  tangle yes

> Note that I added a "yes" value for the "tangle" property. That was missing
> from your BABEL line.

Interesting.  This is a digression, but in my version of Emacs (23.2.1, linux,
64-bit) if I try to copy a long line -- one that extends beyond the border of
the window -- by doing, say:

    C-a C-<SPACE> C-e M-w

I don't get the whole line.  The copied text doesn't stop at the visible
border of the window, but neither does it get all the way to the end of the
line.  Hence, in some of my files the BABEL line DOES include the "yes" in
":tangle yes", but in others, where I evidently didn't pay enough attention
when doing the copy, the "yes" is missing.

Thanks again.

-- Mike

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Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hi Michael,

Michael Hannon wrote:
>>> (2) I typically use the following BABEL line:
>>>
>>> #+BABEL: :session *R* :cache yes :results output verbatim :exports both
>>> :tangle
>>>
>>> How would I express that using the PROPERTY syntax?
>>
>> #+PROPERTY:  tangle yes
>>
>> Note that I added a "yes" value for the "tangle" property. That was missing
>> from your BABEL line.
>
> Interesting.  This is a digression, but in my version of Emacs (23.2.1,
> linux, 64-bit) if I try to copy a long line -- one that extends beyond the
> border of the window -- by doing, say:
>
>     C-a C-<SPACE> C-e M-w
>
> I don't get the whole line.  The copied text doesn't stop at the visible
> border of the window, but neither does it get all the way to the end of the
> line.

Following up your digression...

I've seen the same funny root problem when doing `C-e' on long lines on my
Windows Emacs (23.3, I think -- I run different versions at different
moments).

Indeed, `C-e' sometimes does go further than the visible screen limit, but
doesn't land at the end of the physical line. I thought it could be something
in my (very) long .emacs file. Thanks for showing me it's not my config that's
in cause!

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Nick Dokos]

Sebastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf@spammotel.com> wrote:

> Hi Michael,
> 
> Michael Hannon wrote:
> >>> (2) I typically use the following BABEL line:
> >>>
> >>> #+BABEL: :session *R* :cache yes :results output verbatim :exports both
> >>> :tangle
> >>>
> >>> How would I express that using the PROPERTY syntax?
> >>
> >> #+PROPERTY:  tangle yes
> >>
> >> Note that I added a "yes" value for the "tangle" property. That was missing
> >> from your BABEL line.
> >
> > Interesting.  This is a digression, but in my version of Emacs (23.2.1,
> > linux, 64-bit) if I try to copy a long line -- one that extends beyond the
> > border of the window -- by doing, say:
> >
> >     C-a C-<SPACE> C-e M-w
> >
> > I don't get the whole line.  The copied text doesn't stop at the visible
> > border of the window, but neither does it get all the way to the end of the
> > line.
> 
> Following up your digression...
> 
> I've seen the same funny root problem when doing `C-e' on long lines on my
> Windows Emacs (23.3, I think -- I run different versions at different
> moments).
> 
> Indeed, `C-e' sometimes does go further than the visible screen limit, but
> doesn't land at the end of the physical line. I thought it could be something
> in my (very) long .emacs file. Thanks for showing me it's not my config that's
> in cause!
> 

C-e is bound to org-end-of-line which does the stutter step when you
have a wide buffer in a narrow window: it stops at the first previously
invisible character[fn:1]. If you have a very wide screen (e.g. a table
with a hundred columns or something like that) it might take a few steps
before you get to the end of the line.

But the main reason for org-end-of-line's existence is its behavior on
headlines (and the setting of org-special-ctrl-a/e is very relevant).
C-h f org-end-of-line RET and C-h v org-special-ctrl-a/e RET make
for enlightening reading.

Nick

Footnotes:

[fn:1] well, it's invisible if truncate-lines is t - part of the problem
of describing the bahavior is the settings of all these flags. Tables look
ugly if wrapped, so you probably want truncate-lines set to t anyway.

Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Michael Hannon]

> [...]

> C-e is bound to org-end-of-line which does the stutter step when you have a
> wide buffer in a narrow window: it stops at the first previously invisible
> character[fn:1]. If you have a very wide screen (e.g. a table with a hundred
> columns or something like that) it might take a few steps before you get to
> the end of the line.
 
> But the main reason for org-end-of-line's existence is its behavior on
> headlines (and the setting of org-special-ctrl-a/e is very relevant).
> C-h f org-end-of-line RET and C-h v org-special-ctrl-a/e RET make
> for enlightening reading.

Thanks, Nick.  It never occurred to me to check for remapping of C-e, etc.

-- Mike

Re: BABEL --> PROPERTY?

[Sebastien Vauban]

Hi Nick,

Nick Dokos wrote:
> Sebastien Vauban <wxhgmqzgwmuf-geNee64TY+gS+FvcfC7Uqw@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Michael Hannon wrote:
>> >>> (2) I typically use the following BABEL line:
>> >>>
>> >>> #+BABEL: :session *R* :cache yes :results output verbatim :exports both
>> >>> :tangle
>> >>>
>> >>> How would I express that using the PROPERTY syntax?
>> >>
>> >> #+PROPERTY:  tangle yes
>> >>
>> >> Note that I added a "yes" value for the "tangle" property. That was missing
>> >> from your BABEL line.
>> >
>> > Interesting.  This is a digression, but in my version of Emacs (23.2.1,
>> > linux, 64-bit) if I try to copy a long line -- one that extends beyond the
>> > border of the window -- by doing, say:
>> >
>> >     C-a C-<SPACE> C-e M-w
>> >
>> > I don't get the whole line.  The copied text doesn't stop at the visible
>> > border of the window, but neither does it get all the way to the end of the
>> > line.
>> 
>> Following up your digression...
>> 
>> I've seen the same funny root problem when doing `C-e' on long lines on my
>> Windows Emacs (23.3, I think -- I run different versions at different
>> moments).
>> 
>> Indeed, `C-e' sometimes does go further than the visible screen limit, but
>> doesn't land at the end of the physical line. I thought it could be something
>> in my (very) long .emacs file. Thanks for showing me it's not my config that's
>> in cause!
>
> C-e is bound to org-end-of-line which does the stutter step when you
> have a wide buffer in a narrow window: it stops at the first previously
> invisible character[fn:1]. If you have a very wide screen (e.g. a table
> with a hundred columns or something like that) it might take a few steps
> before you get to the end of the line.
>
> But the main reason for org-end-of-line's existence is its behavior on
> headlines (and the setting of org-special-ctrl-a/e is very relevant).
> C-h f org-end-of-line RET and C-h v org-special-ctrl-a/e RET make
> for enlightening reading.
>
> Nick
>
> Footnotes:
>
> [fn:1] well, it's invisible if truncate-lines is t - part of the problem
> of describing the bahavior is the settings of all these flags. Tables look
> ugly if wrapped, so you probably want truncate-lines set to t anyway.

I was aware of `org-special-ctrl-a/e' (not set in my config) to let `C-a' and
`C-e' behave specially in headlines and items, but I was not aware that --
when not special -- `C-e' still behaved differently from the standard
`end-of-line'. I've now bound them back to the standard functions.

Thanks...

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban