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* Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)]
@ 2016-05-20  0:13 Ken Mankoff
  2016-05-20  0:18 ` Ken Mankoff
  2016-05-20  3:33 ` Charles C. Berry
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Ken Mankoff @ 2016-05-20  0:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-org


I've noticed that code and results are all getting exported in the
latest Org mode git head. This is new  behavior. I haven't traced
it to what commit caused this change, but the stock 8.2.10 install does
not have this bug.

The offending setting is:

(setq org-export-babel-evaluate nil)

My full state is attached below, but I'm recreating the bug with a
simpler setup:

I'm running a clean Emacs with:

~/local/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/Emacs -Q ~/.emacs.d/simple.el

where the contents of "simple.el" are only:

;;------------------------------------------------
(add-to-list 'load-path "~/local/src/org-mode/lisp")
(add-to-list 'load-path "~/local/src/org-mode/contrib" t)
(require 'org)
(setq org-export-babel-evaluate nil)
(org-babel-do-load-languages
 'org-babel-load-languages
 '((emacs-lisp . t)   
   (octave . t)))
;;------------------------------------------------

If I evaluate the first 3 lines, I load the latest git head. If I do
not, I run Org 8.2.10. If I evaluate the 4th line, "(setq
org-export-babel-evaluate nil)", the bug does not appear in 8.2.10, but
does appear in git head.

I test it with the following file:

;;------------------------------------------------
#+BEGIN_SRC octave :exports results
"hello, world"
#+END_SRC
#+RESULTS:
: hello, world
;;------------------------------------------------


Which I then export to LaTeX. In Org 8.2.10 w/ or w/o
"org-export-babel-evaluate", I only see results. In git head, I see the
code and the results if it is set to 'nil'.


    -k.



Emacs  : GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.5.0, Carbon Version 157 AppKit 1348.17)
 of 2015-12-15 on bos-mp6ry
Package: Org-mode version 8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8 @ /Users/mankoff/local/src/org-mode/lisp/)

current state:
==============
(setq
 org-export-babel-evaluate nil
 org-tab-first-hook '(org-hide-block-toggle-maybe
		      org-babel-hide-result-toggle-maybe
		      org-babel-header-arg-expand)
 org-speed-command-hook '(org-speed-command-default-hook
			  org-babel-speed-command-hook)
 org-occur-hook '(org-first-headline-recenter)
 org-metaup-hook '(org-babel-load-in-session-maybe)
 org-html-format-drawer-function '(closure
				   (htmlize-buffer-places
				    org-html-format-table-no-css
				    htmlize-css-name-prefix
				    htmlize-output-type htmlize-output-type
				    htmlize-css-name-prefix t)
				   (_name contents) contents)
 org-latex-format-inlinetask-function 'org-latex-format-inlinetask-default-function
 org-confirm-shell-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
 org-ascii-format-inlinetask-function 'org-ascii-format-inlinetask-default
 org-latex-format-headline-function 'org-latex-format-headline-default-function
 org-after-todo-state-change-hook '(org-clock-out-if-current)
 org-latex-format-drawer-function '(closure (t) (_ contents) contents)
 org-odt-format-headline-function 'org-odt-format-headline-default-function
 org-src-mode-hook '(org-src-babel-configure-edit-buffer
		     org-src-mode-configure-edit-buffer)
 org-agenda-before-write-hook '(org-agenda-add-entry-text)
 org-babel-pre-tangle-hook '(save-buffer)
 org-mode-hook '((closure
		  (org-inlinetask-min-level buffer-face-mode-face org-mode-map
		   org-tbl-menu org-org-menu org-struct-menu org-entities
		   org-last-state org-id-track-globally org-clock-start-time
		   texmathp-why remember-data-file
		   org-agenda-tags-todo-honor-ignore-options
		   iswitchb-temp-buflist calc-embedded-open-mode
		   calc-embedded-open-formula calc-embedded-close-formula
		   align-mode-rules-list zmacs-regions outline-mode-menu-hide
		   outline-mode-menu-show outline-mode-menu-heading
		   org-emphasis-alist org-emphasis-regexp-components
		   org-export-registered-backends org-modules
		   org-babel-load-languages t)
		  nil
		  (org-add-hook (quote change-major-mode-hook)
		   (quote org-show-block-all) (quote append) (quote local))
		  )
		 (lambda nil
		  (org-add-hook (quote change-major-mode-hook)
		   (quote org-babel-show-result-all) (quote append)
		   (quote local))
		  )
		 org-babel-result-hide-spec org-babel-hide-all-hashes)
 org-archive-hook '(org-attach-archive-delete-maybe)
 org-ascii-format-drawer-function '(closure (t) (_name contents _width)
				    contents)
 org-odt-format-inlinetask-function 'org-odt-format-inlinetask-default-function
 org-ctrl-c-ctrl-c-hook '(org-babel-hash-at-point
			  org-babel-execute-safely-maybe)
 org-cycle-hook '(org-cycle-hide-archived-subtrees org-cycle-hide-drawers
		  org-cycle-show-empty-lines
		  org-optimize-window-after-visibility-change)
 org-confirm-elisp-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
 org-metadown-hook '(org-babel-pop-to-session-maybe)
 org-odt-format-drawer-function '(closure
				  (hfy-user-sheet-assoc hfy-optimizations
				   hfy-html-quote-regex hfy-html-quote-map
				   hfy-face-to-css hfy-begin-span-handler
				   hfy-end-span-handler archive-zip-extract
				   nxml-auto-insert-xml-declaration-flag t)
				  (_name contents) contents)
 org-html-format-headline-function 'org-html-format-headline-default-function
 org-babel-load-languages '((emacs-lisp . t) (octave . t))
 org-html-format-inlinetask-function 'org-html-format-inlinetask-default-function
 org-clock-out-hook '(org-clock-remove-empty-clock-drawer)
 )

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)]
  2016-05-20  0:13 Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)] Ken Mankoff
@ 2016-05-20  0:18 ` Ken Mankoff
  2016-05-20  3:33 ` Charles C. Berry
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Ken Mankoff @ 2016-05-20  0:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-org


A bit of digging in git and I guess this commit may be related,

http://orgmode.org/w/?p=org-mode.git;a=commitdiff;h=ec615b192d703a0201ceefd46897e4636ff00a38

summarized as "Fix `org-export-babel-evaluate' handling"

  -k.

On 2016-05-19 at 20:13, Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've noticed that code and results are all getting exported in the
> latest Org mode git head. This is new  behavior. I haven't traced
> it to what commit caused this change, but the stock 8.2.10 install does
> not have this bug.
>
> The offending setting is:
>
> (setq org-export-babel-evaluate nil)
>
> My full state is attached below, but I'm recreating the bug with a
> simpler setup:
>
> I'm running a clean Emacs with:
>
> ~/local/Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/MacOS/Emacs -Q ~/.emacs.d/simple.el
>
> where the contents of "simple.el" are only:
>
> ;;------------------------------------------------
> (add-to-list 'load-path "~/local/src/org-mode/lisp")
> (add-to-list 'load-path "~/local/src/org-mode/contrib" t)
> (require 'org)
> (setq org-export-babel-evaluate nil)
> (org-babel-do-load-languages
>  'org-babel-load-languages
>  '((emacs-lisp . t)   
>    (octave . t)))
> ;;------------------------------------------------
>
> If I evaluate the first 3 lines, I load the latest git head. If I do
> not, I run Org 8.2.10. If I evaluate the 4th line, "(setq
> org-export-babel-evaluate nil)", the bug does not appear in 8.2.10, but
> does appear in git head.
>
> I test it with the following file:
>
> ;;------------------------------------------------
> #+BEGIN_SRC octave :exports results
> "hello, world"
> #+END_SRC
> #+RESULTS:
> : hello, world
> ;;------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Which I then export to LaTeX. In Org 8.2.10 w/ or w/o
> "org-export-babel-evaluate", I only see results. In git head, I see the
> code and the results if it is set to 'nil'.
>
>
>     -k.
>
>
>
> Emacs  : GNU Emacs 24.5.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.5.0, Carbon Version 157 AppKit 1348.17)
>  of 2015-12-15 on bos-mp6ry
> Package: Org-mode version 8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8 @ /Users/mankoff/local/src/org-mode/lisp/)
>
> current state:
> ==============
> (setq
>  org-export-babel-evaluate nil
>  org-tab-first-hook '(org-hide-block-toggle-maybe
> 		      org-babel-hide-result-toggle-maybe
> 		      org-babel-header-arg-expand)
>  org-speed-command-hook '(org-speed-command-default-hook
> 			  org-babel-speed-command-hook)
>  org-occur-hook '(org-first-headline-recenter)
>  org-metaup-hook '(org-babel-load-in-session-maybe)
>  org-html-format-drawer-function '(closure
> 				   (htmlize-buffer-places
> 				    org-html-format-table-no-css
> 				    htmlize-css-name-prefix
> 				    htmlize-output-type htmlize-output-type
> 				    htmlize-css-name-prefix t)
> 				   (_name contents) contents)
>  org-latex-format-inlinetask-function 'org-latex-format-inlinetask-default-function
>  org-confirm-shell-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
>  org-ascii-format-inlinetask-function 'org-ascii-format-inlinetask-default
>  org-latex-format-headline-function 'org-latex-format-headline-default-function
>  org-after-todo-state-change-hook '(org-clock-out-if-current)
>  org-latex-format-drawer-function '(closure (t) (_ contents) contents)
>  org-odt-format-headline-function 'org-odt-format-headline-default-function
>  org-src-mode-hook '(org-src-babel-configure-edit-buffer
> 		     org-src-mode-configure-edit-buffer)
>  org-agenda-before-write-hook '(org-agenda-add-entry-text)
>  org-babel-pre-tangle-hook '(save-buffer)
>  org-mode-hook '((closure
> 		  (org-inlinetask-min-level buffer-face-mode-face org-mode-map
> 		   org-tbl-menu org-org-menu org-struct-menu org-entities
> 		   org-last-state org-id-track-globally org-clock-start-time
> 		   texmathp-why remember-data-file
> 		   org-agenda-tags-todo-honor-ignore-options
> 		   iswitchb-temp-buflist calc-embedded-open-mode
> 		   calc-embedded-open-formula calc-embedded-close-formula
> 		   align-mode-rules-list zmacs-regions outline-mode-menu-hide
> 		   outline-mode-menu-show outline-mode-menu-heading
> 		   org-emphasis-alist org-emphasis-regexp-components
> 		   org-export-registered-backends org-modules
> 		   org-babel-load-languages t)
> 		  nil
> 		  (org-add-hook (quote change-major-mode-hook)
> 		   (quote org-show-block-all) (quote append) (quote local))
> 		  )
> 		 (lambda nil
> 		  (org-add-hook (quote change-major-mode-hook)
> 		   (quote org-babel-show-result-all) (quote append)
> 		   (quote local))
> 		  )
> 		 org-babel-result-hide-spec org-babel-hide-all-hashes)
>  org-archive-hook '(org-attach-archive-delete-maybe)
>  org-ascii-format-drawer-function '(closure (t) (_name contents _width)
> 				    contents)
>  org-odt-format-inlinetask-function 'org-odt-format-inlinetask-default-function
>  org-ctrl-c-ctrl-c-hook '(org-babel-hash-at-point
> 			  org-babel-execute-safely-maybe)
>  org-cycle-hook '(org-cycle-hide-archived-subtrees org-cycle-hide-drawers
> 		  org-cycle-show-empty-lines
> 		  org-optimize-window-after-visibility-change)
>  org-confirm-elisp-link-function 'yes-or-no-p
>  org-metadown-hook '(org-babel-pop-to-session-maybe)
>  org-odt-format-drawer-function '(closure
> 				  (hfy-user-sheet-assoc hfy-optimizations
> 				   hfy-html-quote-regex hfy-html-quote-map
> 				   hfy-face-to-css hfy-begin-span-handler
> 				   hfy-end-span-handler archive-zip-extract
> 				   nxml-auto-insert-xml-declaration-flag t)
> 				  (_name contents) contents)
>  org-html-format-headline-function 'org-html-format-headline-default-function
>  org-babel-load-languages '((emacs-lisp . t) (octave . t))
>  org-html-format-inlinetask-function 'org-html-format-inlinetask-default-function
>  org-clock-out-hook '(org-clock-remove-empty-clock-drawer)
>  )

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)]
  2016-05-20  0:13 Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)] Ken Mankoff
  2016-05-20  0:18 ` Ken Mankoff
@ 2016-05-20  3:33 ` Charles C. Berry
  2016-05-20 11:12   ` Ken Mankoff
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Charles C. Berry @ 2016-05-20  3:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ken Mankoff; +Cc: emacs-org

On Thu, 19 May 2016, Ken Mankoff wrote:

>
> I've noticed that code and results are all getting exported in the
> latest Org mode git head. This is new  behavior. I haven't traced
> it to what commit caused this change, but the stock 8.2.10 install does
> not have this bug.
>
> The offending setting is:
>
> (setq org-export-babel-evaluate nil)


I think this is a *feature* not a bug.

It turns off all of babel on export. So the code will still be there and 
any results that were already in the buffer will also be there.

You can use `org-babel-remove-result-one-or-many' with a prefix if you 
want results to be stripped (prior to export, say).

You can use :cache to prevent re-evaluation of code blocks and set 
org-export-babel-evaluate to t. Then the `:exports results' blocks will 
not have their code run nor exported.

If you want to avoid babel, but still have header-args govern the 
appearance of the export, you have a lot of work to do. The exporter does 
not get automatic access to the header-args, so stuff like

`#+PROPERTY: header-args :exports results'

would be hard for the src-block transcoder to find.

A workaround that might suffice is to defun `org-export-my-src-block' to 
return nothing, then use it as the src-block transcoder in a derived 
export backend. Then all the code disappears on export.

There are some other possibilities like hacks involving babel. Probably 
better to stay away from those.

HTH,

Chuck

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)]
  2016-05-20  3:33 ` Charles C. Berry
@ 2016-05-20 11:12   ` Ken Mankoff
  2016-05-20 11:28     ` Ken Mankoff
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Ken Mankoff @ 2016-05-20 11:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Charles C. Berry; +Cc: emacs-org


On 2016-05-19 at 23:33, Charles C. Berry <ccberry@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, 19 May 2016, Ken Mankoff wrote:
>
>> I've noticed that code and results are all getting exported in the
>> latest Org mode git head. This is new behavior. I haven't traced it
>> to what commit caused this change, but the stock 8.2.10 install does
>> not have this bug.
>>
>> The offending setting is:
>>
>> (setq org-export-babel-evaluate nil)
>
> I think this is a *feature* not a bug.
>
> It turns off all of babel on export. So the code will still be there
> and any results that were already in the buffer will also be there.

The documentation is: "Switch controlling code evaluation during export.
When set to nil no code will be evaluated as part of the export
process."

which is different than "all code and results will be exported". Evaluation and export are two different things.

> You can use `org-babel-remove-result-one-or-many' with a prefix if you 
> want results to be stripped (prior to export, say).
>
> You can use :cache to prevent re-evaluation of code blocks and set
> org-export-babel-evaluate to t. Then the `:exports results' blocks
> will not have their code run nor exported.


(setq org-export-babel-evaluate t)

#+BEGIN_SRC octave :exports results :cache nil
"hello, world"
#+END_SRC
#+RESULTS:
: hello, world

Yes, the above appears to work.

Thanks,

   -k.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)]
  2016-05-20 11:12   ` Ken Mankoff
@ 2016-05-20 11:28     ` Ken Mankoff
  2016-05-20 17:29       ` Charles C. Berry
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Ken Mankoff @ 2016-05-20 11:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Charles C. Berry; +Cc: emacs-org


On 2016-05-20 at 07:12, Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2016-05-19 at 23:33, Charles C. Berry <ccberry@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 May 2016, Ken Mankoff wrote:
>
> (setq org-export-babel-evaluate t)
>
> #+BEGIN_SRC octave :exports results :cache nil
> "hello, world"
> #+END_SRC
> #+RESULTS:
> : hello, world
>
> Yes, the above appears to work.

But it doesn't work with sessions. Can you advise what settings to have how I can have the following code in an Org document:

#+BEGIN_SRC python :results output :exports results :session foo :cache nil
print("hello, world")
#+END_SRC
#+RESULTS:
: hello, world

And easily export that document without evaluating the code?

Thanks,

  -k.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)]
  2016-05-20 11:28     ` Ken Mankoff
@ 2016-05-20 17:29       ` Charles C. Berry
  2016-05-20 17:44         ` Ken Mankoff
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Charles C. Berry @ 2016-05-20 17:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ken Mankoff; +Cc: emacs-org

On Fri, 20 May 2016, Ken Mankoff wrote:

>
> On 2016-05-20 at 07:12, Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2016-05-19 at 23:33, Charles C. Berry <ccberry@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 May 2016, Ken Mankoff wrote:
>>
>> (setq org-export-babel-evaluate t)
>>
>> #+BEGIN_SRC octave :exports results :cache nil
>> "hello, world"
>> #+END_SRC
>> #+RESULTS:
>> : hello, world
>>
>> Yes, the above appears to work.

Really? I do not see the hash in your results block.

>
> But it doesn't work with sessions. Can you advise what settings to have how I can have the following code in an Org document:
>
> #+BEGIN_SRC python :results output :exports results :session foo :cache nil
> print("hello, world")
> #+END_SRC
> #+RESULTS:
> : hello, world
>
> And easily export that document without evaluating the code?

`:cache yes'

Of course, you must eval at least once with `:cache yes' to set the hash.

Chuck

p.s. I like to use stuff like

: import time
: print(time.strftime("%H:%M:%S"))

in src blocks to do :cache experiments

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)]
  2016-05-20 17:29       ` Charles C. Berry
@ 2016-05-20 17:44         ` Ken Mankoff
  2016-05-20 17:48           ` Charles C. Berry
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Ken Mankoff @ 2016-05-20 17:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Charles C. Berry; +Cc: emacs-org


On 2016-05-20 at 13:29, Charles C. Berry <ccberry@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 May 2016, Ken Mankoff wrote:
>>>
>>> #+BEGIN_SRC octave :exports results :cache nil
>>> "hello, world"
>>> #+END_SRC
>>> #+RESULTS:
>>> : hello, world
>>>
>>> Yes, the above appears to work.
>
> Really? I do not see the hash in your results block.

Correct. I've never used cache, and ":cache t" doesn't work, it has to be ":cache yes". I'll try to set this up and see if it works better w/ caching. That may be the trick as you suggested in the other thread, and perhaps most of the issues here are my improper use of cache (which wasn't required before).

  -k.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)]
  2016-05-20 17:44         ` Ken Mankoff
@ 2016-05-20 17:48           ` Charles C. Berry
  2016-05-20 23:03             ` Ken Mankoff
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Charles C. Berry @ 2016-05-20 17:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ken Mankoff; +Cc: emacs-org

On Fri, 20 May 2016, Ken Mankoff wrote:

>
> On 2016-05-20 at 13:29, Charles C. Berry <ccberry@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 May 2016, Ken Mankoff wrote:
>>>>
>>>> #+BEGIN_SRC octave :exports results :cache nil
>>>> "hello, world"
>>>> #+END_SRC
>>>> #+RESULTS:
>>>> : hello, world
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the above appears to work.
>>
>> Really? I do not see the hash in your results block.
>
> Correct. I've never used cache, and ":cache t" doesn't work, it has to 
> be ":cache yes". I'll try to set this up and see if it works better w/ 
> caching. That may be the trick as you suggested in the other thread, and 
> perhaps most of the issues here are my improper use of cache (which 
> wasn't required before).
>

But I see that you said:

>
> I'm still trying to find a way where:
>  + code results do export
>  + code does not export
>  + code does not evaluate at export
>  + code can still be evaluated by me
>

So, you want `:exports results :eval never-export' and forget about
`:cache yes'.

And leave `org-export-babel-evaluate' at `t'.

Also, see
         (info "(org) eval")

Chuck

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

* Re: Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)]
  2016-05-20 17:48           ` Charles C. Berry
@ 2016-05-20 23:03             ` Ken Mankoff
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Ken Mankoff @ 2016-05-20 23:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Charles C. Berry; +Cc: emacs-org

Hi Chuck,

On 2016-05-20 at 13:48, Charles C. Berry <ccberry@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 May 2016, Ken Mankoff wrote:
>>
>> I'm still trying to find a way where:
>>  + code results do export
>>  + code does not export
>>  + code does not evaluate at export
>>  + code can still be evaluated by me
>>
>
> So, you want `:exports results :eval never-export' and forget about
> `:cache yes'.
>
> And leave `org-export-babel-evaluate' at `t'.
>
> Also, see
>          (info "(org) eval")
>

Yes, this setup now appears to work. Thank you! I can get back to work...

I think this option to :eval might also be useful for John Hendy who was manually toggling eval from no to yes.

  -k.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

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2016-05-20  0:13 Bug: org-export-babel-evaluate causes everything to be exported [8.3.4 (release_8.3.4-824-ga02fe8)] Ken Mankoff
2016-05-20  0:18 ` Ken Mankoff
2016-05-20  3:33 ` Charles C. Berry
2016-05-20 11:12   ` Ken Mankoff
2016-05-20 11:28     ` Ken Mankoff
2016-05-20 17:29       ` Charles C. Berry
2016-05-20 17:44         ` Ken Mankoff
2016-05-20 17:48           ` Charles C. Berry
2016-05-20 23:03             ` Ken Mankoff

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