From: "numbchild@gmail.com" <numbchild@gmail.com>
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Cc: Org Mode List <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>,
Nicolas Goaziou <mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
Subject: Re: [RFC] Remove Org Struct mode
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:48:18 +0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAL1eYuKfsy6kSn-KUE+n0tc1L8h1QSRuA-QEK0R14Z1=0ZPHTg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87r2w5c2sk.fsf@gmail.com>
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I agree too, because the OrgStruct mode functions is so limited for basic
Org-mode viewing/editing/navigating etc.
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On Mon, Aug 21, 2017 at 6:06 AM, Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> One of the reasons I moved to using mu4e for email was because I was
> told I could use orgStruct mode and write my email using org structured
> editing.
>
> The reality has been somewhat disappointing. One of the main things I
> wanted was better handling of lists and this is one area of orgstruct
> mode which certainly doesn't work correctly.
>
> So, given what you say and the fact the mode isn't working as
> advertised, I tend to agree. Just adding a note to my org task list to
> look at outshine.el, which I wasn't aware of. If I really need org
> structural editing for writing an email, I'll write it in an org-mode
> file and then transfer it to a message buffer - as you point out, there
> is lots in org mode which makes no sense in an email buffer anyway!
>
> Tim
>
> Nicolas Goaziou writes:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I would like to remove Org Struct minor mode from Org code base. Here is
> > the rationale:
> >
> > 1. It is broken. It might look like using Org in another buffer, but it
> > is not. In particular, it just cannot cope with lists, indentation,
> > filling in, e.g., Message mode, as soon as we try something
> > non-trivial. Really, that's a poor-man's Org mode.
> >
> > 2. Its implementation is very hackish. In particular, it is not modular
> > at all. It rewrites some core functions according to the major mode
> > in use. For example `org-fill-function' tries to handle specially
> > text in a Message mode buffer, basically short-circuiting regular
> > behaviour. There no support for other major modes. If we want some,
> > we need to hard-code it.
> >
> > 3. Due to previous point, some basic Org functions are sub-optimal
> > because they preserve compatibility with Org Struct mode. For example
> > `org-forward-heading-same-level' must process every headline past the
> > current one and check their level until an appropriate one is found.
> > It would be faster to go looking for the next headline according to
> > the number of stars we want.
> >
> > 4. It is somewhat outside Org mode's scope to provide such a feature. It
> > is tempting to provide everything we can think of, but we should
> > focus on the main task: handle Org files, i.e., files written in Org
> > compatible syntax.
> >
> > 5. There are alternatives. E.g., outshine.el, outline-minor-mode, ...
> >
> > I _do_ use `orgstruct++-mode'. But it is broken beyond repair.
> > Alternatives, which do not need to pay a technical debt, are certainly
> > better, or, at least, a saner ground for improvement.
> >
> > I'm not opposed to an Org struct mode living in ELPA. But, as pointed
> > out, it is difficult to extract from code base without rewriting it
> > completely. If alternatives are serious enough, that would be
> > re-inventing the wheel, too.
> >
> > The only thing that would be missing, AFAIK, is plain list handling.
> > However, I'm quite certain it is possible to re-use most code from
> > "org-list.el", using a dumbed down `org-list-struct' function. Indeed,
> > currently, `org-list-struct' requires to know about inlinetasks,
> > drawers, blocks... i.e., most of the Org syntax. This is not an option
> > in foreign buffers. Once `org-list-struct' (and maybe `org-in-item-p')
> > are simplified, other functions in "org-list.el" can be used as is.
> >
> > I'm not talking about OrgTbl mode (yet). OrgTbl mode is different: it
> > doesn't suffer from points 1, 3 end 5. It is easier to extract it as an
> > external library, which someone should ultimately do.
> >
> > To sum it up, I offer to remove `orgstruct-mode' (and
> > `orgstruct++-mode') from the code base. I can also offer my help to
> > anyone willing to extract some `list-minor-mode' and `table-minor-mode'
> > from Org.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
>
>
> --
> Tim Cross
>
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-08-21 2:48 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 32+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-08-20 13:57 [RFC] Remove Org Struct mode Nicolas Goaziou
2017-08-20 14:56 ` Neil Jerram
2017-08-20 17:04 ` Scott Randby
2017-08-20 18:04 ` Eric S Fraga
2017-08-21 5:47 ` Jarmo Hurri
2017-08-22 6:58 ` Marcin Borkowski
2017-08-22 8:32 ` Eric S Fraga
2017-08-21 12:48 ` Eduardo Mercovich
2017-08-20 22:06 ` Tim Cross
2017-08-21 2:48 ` numbchild [this message]
2017-08-21 11:59 ` Michael Brand
2017-08-22 12:21 ` Kaushal Modi
2017-08-22 17:48 ` Michael Brand
2017-09-05 18:48 ` Michael Brand
2017-09-09 18:20 ` Thorsten Jolitz
2017-09-09 19:04 ` Michael Brand
2017-08-21 15:15 ` Richard Lawrence
2017-08-22 12:16 ` Kaushal Modi
2017-08-22 13:45 ` Aaron Ecay
2017-08-22 13:50 ` Carsten Dominik
2017-08-27 16:34 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2017-08-27 20:28 ` Samuel Wales
2017-08-22 22:57 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2017-08-23 10:47 ` Rasmus
2017-08-23 11:33 ` Adam Porter
2017-08-23 12:24 ` Michael Brand
2017-08-23 15:14 ` Adam Porter
2017-08-23 21:00 ` Michael Brand
2017-08-27 13:07 ` Michael Brand
2017-09-02 8:03 ` Adam Porter
2017-08-23 19:17 ` Rasmus
2017-08-23 21:02 ` Michael Brand
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