From: Neil Jerram <neil@ossau.homelinux.net>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [RFC] Remove Org Struct mode
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 15:56:30 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <249345ef-03e3-3385-d8a9-cfe78d8fbff3@ossau.homelinux.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87mv6ul4u6.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr>
I have been using org-mode for a few years now, but have never yet
noticed org-struct mode. So removing org-struct would be no loss for me
(and possibly a gain, if it eased ongoing org-mode maintenance and
development).
OTOH I certainly do use and appreciate orgtbl minor mode, and it would
be a big disadvantage for me if that function disappeared. I've no
objection in principle, though, to reorganizing _how_ that function is
provided.
Regards - Neil
On 20/08/17 14:57, Nicolas Goaziou wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to remove Org Struct minor mode from Org code base. Here is
> the rationale:
>
> 1. It is broken. It might look like using Org in another buffer, but it
> is not. In particular, it just cannot cope with lists, indentation,
> filling in, e.g., Message mode, as soon as we try something
> non-trivial. Really, that's a poor-man's Org mode.
>
> 2. Its implementation is very hackish. In particular, it is not modular
> at all. It rewrites some core functions according to the major mode
> in use. For example `org-fill-function' tries to handle specially
> text in a Message mode buffer, basically short-circuiting regular
> behaviour. There no support for other major modes. If we want some,
> we need to hard-code it.
>
> 3. Due to previous point, some basic Org functions are sub-optimal
> because they preserve compatibility with Org Struct mode. For example
> `org-forward-heading-same-level' must process every headline past the
> current one and check their level until an appropriate one is found.
> It would be faster to go looking for the next headline according to
> the number of stars we want.
>
> 4. It is somewhat outside Org mode's scope to provide such a feature. It
> is tempting to provide everything we can think of, but we should
> focus on the main task: handle Org files, i.e., files written in Org
> compatible syntax.
>
> 5. There are alternatives. E.g., outshine.el, outline-minor-mode, ...
>
> I _do_ use `orgstruct++-mode'. But it is broken beyond repair.
> Alternatives, which do not need to pay a technical debt, are certainly
> better, or, at least, a saner ground for improvement.
>
> I'm not opposed to an Org struct mode living in ELPA. But, as pointed
> out, it is difficult to extract from code base without rewriting it
> completely. If alternatives are serious enough, that would be
> re-inventing the wheel, too.
>
> The only thing that would be missing, AFAIK, is plain list handling.
> However, I'm quite certain it is possible to re-use most code from
> "org-list.el", using a dumbed down `org-list-struct' function. Indeed,
> currently, `org-list-struct' requires to know about inlinetasks,
> drawers, blocks... i.e., most of the Org syntax. This is not an option
> in foreign buffers. Once `org-list-struct' (and maybe `org-in-item-p')
> are simplified, other functions in "org-list.el" can be used as is.
>
> I'm not talking about OrgTbl mode (yet). OrgTbl mode is different: it
> doesn't suffer from points 1, 3 end 5. It is easier to extract it as an
> external library, which someone should ultimately do.
>
> To sum it up, I offer to remove `orgstruct-mode' (and
> `orgstruct++-mode') from the code base. I can also offer my help to
> anyone willing to extract some `list-minor-mode' and `table-minor-mode'
> from Org.
>
> WDYT?
>
>
> Regards,
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2017-08-20 14:56 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 32+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2017-08-20 13:57 [RFC] Remove Org Struct mode Nicolas Goaziou
2017-08-20 14:56 ` Neil Jerram [this message]
2017-08-20 17:04 ` Scott Randby
2017-08-20 18:04 ` Eric S Fraga
2017-08-21 5:47 ` Jarmo Hurri
2017-08-22 6:58 ` Marcin Borkowski
2017-08-22 8:32 ` Eric S Fraga
2017-08-21 12:48 ` Eduardo Mercovich
2017-08-20 22:06 ` Tim Cross
2017-08-21 2:48 ` numbchild
2017-08-21 11:59 ` Michael Brand
2017-08-22 12:21 ` Kaushal Modi
2017-08-22 17:48 ` Michael Brand
2017-09-05 18:48 ` Michael Brand
2017-09-09 18:20 ` Thorsten Jolitz
2017-09-09 19:04 ` Michael Brand
2017-08-21 15:15 ` Richard Lawrence
2017-08-22 12:16 ` Kaushal Modi
2017-08-22 13:45 ` Aaron Ecay
2017-08-22 13:50 ` Carsten Dominik
2017-08-27 16:34 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2017-08-27 20:28 ` Samuel Wales
2017-08-22 22:57 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2017-08-23 10:47 ` Rasmus
2017-08-23 11:33 ` Adam Porter
2017-08-23 12:24 ` Michael Brand
2017-08-23 15:14 ` Adam Porter
2017-08-23 21:00 ` Michael Brand
2017-08-27 13:07 ` Michael Brand
2017-09-02 8:03 ` Adam Porter
2017-08-23 19:17 ` Rasmus
2017-08-23 21:02 ` Michael Brand
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