* M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? @ 2013-05-15 4:58 Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-15 7:54 ` Christian Moe 2013-05-15 18:39 ` Samuel Wales 0 siblings, 2 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2013-05-15 4:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode For the past couple of weeks I'm finding that both M-RET and C-RET turn the line under point into a heading, instead of inserting a new heading elsewhere. This happens with `org-M-RET-may-split-line' set to anything. So this: #+begin_src org * Chapter One :PROPERTIES: :some_prop: t :END: In which not [point is here] very much happens. But this is a further test to see what happens on multiline text. #+end_src becomes: #+begin_src org * Chapter One :PROPERTIES: :some_prop: t :END: * In which not very much happens. But this is a further test to see what happens on multiline text. #+end_src This also happens with emacs -Q. Has no one else seen this? Thanks, Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-15 4:58 M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? Eric Abrahamsen @ 2013-05-15 7:54 ` Christian Moe 2013-05-15 8:22 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-20 15:54 ` John Hendy 2013-05-15 18:39 ` Samuel Wales 1 sibling, 2 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Christian Moe @ 2013-05-15 7:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: Bernt Hansen, emacs-orgmode Hi, My user input is partially to blame for this, I think. See toward the end of this thread: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/69794 I was under the impression that the behavior of M-RET had changed, but I may have given a wrong or incomplete description of the "old behavior" I seemed to remember and wanted back. I agree that the current behavior does not seem ideal either. Here's some more misguided user input: Wouldn't it be intuitive if M-RET at the beginning of a line turned that line into a heading (as it currently does), but M-RET at the end of a line inserted a new heading below (would require a change from the current workings)? Not sure about M-RET somewhere in the middle of a line. Yours, Christian Eric Abrahamsen writes: > For the past couple of weeks I'm finding that both M-RET and C-RET turn > the line under point into a heading, instead of inserting a new heading > elsewhere. This happens with `org-M-RET-may-split-line' set to anything. > > So this: > > #+begin_src org > * Chapter One > :PROPERTIES: > :some_prop: t > :END: > In which not [point is here] very much happens. But this is a further test to see > what happens on multiline text. > #+end_src > > becomes: > > #+begin_src org > * Chapter One > :PROPERTIES: > :some_prop: t > :END: > * In which not very much happens. But this is a further test to see > what happens on multiline text. > #+end_src > > This also happens with emacs -Q. Has no one else seen this? > > Thanks, > Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-15 7:54 ` Christian Moe @ 2013-05-15 8:22 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-15 9:01 ` Christian Moe 2013-05-20 15:54 ` John Hendy 1 sibling, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2013-05-15 8:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> writes: > Hi, > > My user input is partially to blame for this, I think. See toward the > end of this thread: > > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/69749 > > I was under the impression that the behavior of M-RET had changed, but I > may have given a wrong or incomplete description of the "old behavior" I > seemed to remember and wanted back. I agree that the current behavior > does not seem ideal either. > > Here's some more misguided user input: Wouldn't it be intuitive if M-RET > at the beginning of a line turned that line into a heading (as it > currently does), but M-RET at the end of a line inserted a new heading > below (would require a change from the current workings)? Not sure about > M-RET somewhere in the middle of a line. Hey, I'm all about misguided user input :) I read that brief thread, and it looks like there was a call for opinions that I missed! Better late than never... I don't see why `org-ctrl-c-star' --> `org-toggle-heading' isn't enough for creating headlines out of existing text. At the very least, we shouldn't now have three keystrokes (C-c *, M-RET, C-RET) that do the same thing! Also, `org-M-RET-may-split-line', which was once a very interesting variable, now does nothing since M-RET simply doesn't split the line. Or am I missing something about the new arrangement? However it falls out, I would love to have two commands back: one that starts a new heading under point, and one that starts a new heading at the end of the current subtree. Ie, what M-RET and C-RET used to do... Eric > Yours, > Christian > > > Eric Abrahamsen writes: > >> For the past couple of weeks I'm finding that both M-RET and C-RET turn >> the line under point into a heading, instead of inserting a new heading >> elsewhere. This happens with `org-M-RET-may-split-line' set to anything. >> >> So this: >> >> #+begin_src org >> * Chapter One >> :PROPERTIES: >> :some_prop: t >> :END: >> In which not [point is here] very much happens. But this is a further test to see >> what happens on multiline text. >> #+end_src >> >> becomes: >> >> #+begin_src org >> * Chapter One >> :PROPERTIES: >> :some_prop: t >> :END: >> * In which not very much happens. But this is a further test to see >> what happens on multiline text. >> #+end_src >> >> This also happens with emacs -Q. Has no one else seen this? >> >> Thanks, >> Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-15 8:22 ` Eric Abrahamsen @ 2013-05-15 9:01 ` Christian Moe 2013-05-15 9:30 ` Eric Abrahamsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Christian Moe @ 2013-05-15 9:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Eric Abrahamsen writes: > I don't see why `org-ctrl-c-star' --> `org-toggle-heading' isn't enough > for creating headlines out of existing text. Fair point, but I find it useful to have a simpler and speedier combination, redundant or not. For instance, I often use Org to make structured documents out of plain text, text copy-pasted from PDFs etc., which involves scrolling through the document and repeatedly turning the lines at point into headings. It quickly becomes a nuisance to do this with a sequence of two double keypresses (`C-c *', that is, `C-c S-8' -- not to mention that I routinely switch between keyboards for three languages with somewhat different ideas where `*' should be). > At the very least, we shouldn't now have three keystrokes (C-c *, > M-RET, C-RET) that do the same thing! Also, > `org-M-RET-may-split-line', which was once a very interesting > variable, now does nothing since M-RET simply doesn't split the line. True. I think this needs to be revisited (before too many people get used to the recent arrangement). Yours, Christian ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-15 9:01 ` Christian Moe @ 2013-05-15 9:30 ` Eric Abrahamsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2013-05-15 9:30 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> writes: > Eric Abrahamsen writes: > >> I don't see why `org-ctrl-c-star' --> `org-toggle-heading' isn't enough >> for creating headlines out of existing text. > > Fair point, but I find it useful to have a simpler and speedier > combination, redundant or not. For instance, I often use Org to make > structured documents out of plain text, text copy-pasted from PDFs etc., > which involves scrolling through the document and repeatedly turning the > lines at point into headings. It quickly becomes a nuisance to do this > with a sequence of two double keypresses (`C-c *', that is, `C-c S-8' -- > not to mention that I routinely switch between keyboards for three > languages with somewhat different ideas where `*' should be). > >> At the very least, we shouldn't now have three keystrokes (C-c *, >> M-RET, C-RET) that do the same thing! Also, >> `org-M-RET-may-split-line', which was once a very interesting >> variable, now does nothing since M-RET simply doesn't split the line. > > True. I think this needs to be revisited (before too many people get > used to the recent arrangement). Ugh, I've had plenty of experience trying to impose structure on unstructured text. PDF copy-n-paste is a nightmare, particular where columns were involved. However! Having a useful set of commands is one thing, and having useful keybindings for those commands is another. M-RET/C-RET are still pretty crucial for taking notes out of thin air. They each have their own behavior when point is at beginning, middle, and end of line, as well, and I'd hope that all would be left in place. `org-ctrl-c-star' either calls `org-table-recalculate' or `org-toggle-heading', which are strange bedfellows. The key chord seems much more tied to table recalculation (there are multiple various behaviors triggered by prefix args) than to heading toggling. We might consider splitting `org-toggle-heading' off onto its own key. Or perhaps it would be enough tweak keybindings? Maybe leave the current bindings and behavior of `org-ctrl-c-star', but add the "fat finger" bindings of 'C-c 8' and 'C-c C-8' to `org-ctrl-c-star' (or even bind them directly to `org-toggle-heading'). It would be inelegant, but that way you could park a pinkie on the control key, and travel through a buffer with 'C-s' or '(C-u, C-<digit>) C-n', hitting 'C-c C-8' as needed. Just one possibility, E ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-15 7:54 ` Christian Moe 2013-05-15 8:22 ` Eric Abrahamsen @ 2013-05-20 15:54 ` John Hendy 2013-05-20 16:00 ` John Hendy 1 sibling, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: John Hendy @ 2013-05-20 15:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Christian Moe; +Cc: Eric Abrahamsen, Bernt Hansen, emacs-orgmode On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > My user input is partially to blame for this, I think. See toward the > end of this thread: > > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/69794 > > I was under the impression that the behavior of M-RET had changed, but I > may have given a wrong or incomplete description of the "old behavior" I > seemed to remember and wanted back. I agree that the current behavior > does not seem ideal either. > > Here's some more misguided user input: Wouldn't it be intuitive if M-RET > at the beginning of a line turned that line into a heading (as it > currently does), but M-RET at the end of a line inserted a new heading > below (would require a change from the current workings)? Not sure about > M-RET somewhere in the middle of a line. I've been following this thread and there has been some great discussion about future plans for re-write and context-sensitive functionality. In the mean time, can we revert the C-RET behavior back to adding a new headline? I'm finding it incredibly frustration to have no way to just add a new headline below the current contents of a headline, even if it's folded. I'm adding some individuals to my contact file and have no way to just M-RET or C-RET to add a new headline quickly except to navigate and manually type a series of *'s. If we could return one of these to the "old" functionality, that would be great. (Or a recommended new way to just add a headline vs. transforming the last line into a header.) Thanks, John > > Yours, > Christian > > > Eric Abrahamsen writes: > >> For the past couple of weeks I'm finding that both M-RET and C-RET turn >> the line under point into a heading, instead of inserting a new heading >> elsewhere. This happens with `org-M-RET-may-split-line' set to anything. >> >> So this: >> >> #+begin_src org >> * Chapter One >> :PROPERTIES: >> :some_prop: t >> :END: >> In which not [point is here] very much happens. But this is a further test to see >> what happens on multiline text. >> #+end_src >> >> becomes: >> >> #+begin_src org >> * Chapter One >> :PROPERTIES: >> :some_prop: t >> :END: >> * In which not very much happens. But this is a further test to see >> what happens on multiline text. >> #+end_src >> >> This also happens with emacs -Q. Has no one else seen this? >> >> Thanks, >> Eric > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-20 15:54 ` John Hendy @ 2013-05-20 16:00 ` John Hendy 2013-05-20 16:14 ` Matt Lundin 0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: John Hendy @ 2013-05-20 16:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Christian Moe; +Cc: Eric Abrahamsen, Bernt Hansen, emacs-orgmode On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:54 AM, John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> My user input is partially to blame for this, I think. See toward the >> end of this thread: >> >> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/69794 >> >> I was under the impression that the behavior of M-RET had changed, but I >> may have given a wrong or incomplete description of the "old behavior" I >> seemed to remember and wanted back. I agree that the current behavior >> does not seem ideal either. >> >> Here's some more misguided user input: Wouldn't it be intuitive if M-RET >> at the beginning of a line turned that line into a heading (as it >> currently does), but M-RET at the end of a line inserted a new heading >> below (would require a change from the current workings)? Not sure about >> M-RET somewhere in the middle of a line. > > > I've been following this thread and there has been some great > discussion about future plans for re-write and context-sensitive > functionality. In the mean time, can we revert the C-RET behavior back > to adding a new headline? I'm finding it incredibly frustration to > have no way to just add a new headline below the current contents of a > headline, even if it's folded. I'm adding some individuals to my > contact file and have no way to just M-RET or C-RET to add a new > headline quickly except to navigate and manually type a series of *'s. > > If we could return one of these to the "old" functionality, that would > be great. (Or a recommended new way to just add a headline vs. > transforming the last line into a header.) Sorry for the noise. I think I just pulled on Friday, but a pull just now and re-make seems to have returned C-RET to doing what I thought it should. I may have pulled and never restarted my emacs session, so it's quite possible this was fixed earlier. Thanks for that! John > > > Thanks, > John > >> >> Yours, >> Christian >> >> >> Eric Abrahamsen writes: >> >>> For the past couple of weeks I'm finding that both M-RET and C-RET turn >>> the line under point into a heading, instead of inserting a new heading >>> elsewhere. This happens with `org-M-RET-may-split-line' set to anything. >>> >>> So this: >>> >>> #+begin_src org >>> * Chapter One >>> :PROPERTIES: >>> :some_prop: t >>> :END: >>> In which not [point is here] very much happens. But this is a further test to see >>> what happens on multiline text. >>> #+end_src >>> >>> becomes: >>> >>> #+begin_src org >>> * Chapter One >>> :PROPERTIES: >>> :some_prop: t >>> :END: >>> * In which not very much happens. But this is a further test to see >>> what happens on multiline text. >>> #+end_src >>> >>> This also happens with emacs -Q. Has no one else seen this? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Eric >> >> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-20 16:00 ` John Hendy @ 2013-05-20 16:14 ` Matt Lundin 2013-05-20 18:41 ` John Hendy 0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Matt Lundin @ 2013-05-20 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: John Hendy; +Cc: Eric Abrahamsen, Bernt Hansen, emacs-orgmode, Christian Moe John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes: >> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> wrote: >> I've been following this thread and there has been some great >> discussion about future plans for re-write and context-sensitive >> functionality. In the mean time, can we revert the C-RET behavior back >> to adding a new headline? I'm finding it incredibly frustration to >> have no way to just add a new headline below the current contents of a >> headline, even if it's folded. I'm adding some individuals to my >> contact file and have no way to just M-RET or C-RET to add a new >> headline quickly except to navigate and manually type a series of *'s. >> >> If we could return one of these to the "old" functionality, that would >> be great. (Or a recommended new way to just add a headline vs. >> transforming the last line into a header.) > > Sorry for the noise. I think I just pulled on Friday, but a pull just > now and re-make seems to have returned C-RET to doing what I thought > it should. I may have pulled and never restarted my emacs session, so > it's quite possible this was fixed earlier. That's curious. It has not been fixed here with the latest git. I reported this in another thread: http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/72399 Sorry to have missed this thread. Matt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-20 16:14 ` Matt Lundin @ 2013-05-20 18:41 ` John Hendy 0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: John Hendy @ 2013-05-20 18:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Lundin; +Cc: Eric Abrahamsen, Bernt Hansen, emacs-orgmode, Christian Moe On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> wrote: > John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> writes: > >>> On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 2:54 AM, Christian Moe <mail@christianmoe.com> wrote: > >>> I've been following this thread and there has been some great >>> discussion about future plans for re-write and context-sensitive >>> functionality. In the mean time, can we revert the C-RET behavior back >>> to adding a new headline? I'm finding it incredibly frustration to >>> have no way to just add a new headline below the current contents of a >>> headline, even if it's folded. I'm adding some individuals to my >>> contact file and have no way to just M-RET or C-RET to add a new >>> headline quickly except to navigate and manually type a series of *'s. >>> >>> If we could return one of these to the "old" functionality, that would >>> be great. (Or a recommended new way to just add a headline vs. >>> transforming the last line into a header.) >> >> Sorry for the noise. I think I just pulled on Friday, but a pull just >> now and re-make seems to have returned C-RET to doing what I thought >> it should. I may have pulled and never restarted my emacs session, so >> it's quite possible this was fixed earlier. > > That's curious. It has not been fixed here with the latest git. Very curious! Your thread is exactly what I was experiencing before my pull/make clean/make this morning. Now I'm on: Org-mode version 8.0.3 (release_8.0.3-139-g419b69 @ /home/jwhendy/.elisp/org.git/lisp/) It's working and I verified it several times to make sure. Indeed, as with you, the most frustrating was it turning the last line of a folded headline into a new headline while staying sort of folded (or, for me, even bumping the ellipsis down below the current headline so one couldn't unfold it anymore). I guess I'm not sure what to say. I am experiencing what I would expect since my last pull, so I don't really feel compelled to re-pull to see if it's re-broken! Best regards, John > > I reported this in another thread: > > http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/72399 > > Sorry to have missed this thread. > > Matt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-15 4:58 M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-15 7:54 ` Christian Moe @ 2013-05-15 18:39 ` Samuel Wales 2013-05-16 3:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-16 6:21 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 2 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Samuel Wales @ 2013-05-15 18:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: emacs-orgmode How about this? IMO this would be ideal. - M-RET is for the current context - C-RET is for a new context |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| | command | context | pos | action | |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| | c-ret | any | any | create headline above ENTRY | | m-ret | headline or item | beg | create new above header/item | | m-ret | headline or item | middle | split | | m-ret | headline or item | end | create new below header/item | | m-ret | line | beg | create headline above LINE | | m-ret twice | line | beg | create item above line | | m-ret | line | middle | turn line into a headline | | m-ret twice | line | middle | turn line into an item | | m-ret | line | end | create headline below line | | m-ret twice | line | end | create item below line | |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| Notes: - C-RET (in all contexts) creates new headline ABOVE (not below) the current entry - "beg" does not only refer to beginning of line. it also refers to the blank spaces before a list item or stars and space in a headline I should mention that M-RET still takes several seconds. Also, C-RET and M-RET currently seem to be identical? Samuel -- The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com The disease DOES progress. MANY people have died from it. ANYBODY can get it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-15 18:39 ` Samuel Wales @ 2013-05-16 3:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-16 3:42 ` Samuel Wales ` (3 more replies) 2013-05-16 6:21 ` Bastien 1 sibling, 4 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2013-05-16 3:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes: > How about this? IMO this would be ideal. > > - M-RET is for the current context > - C-RET is for a new context > > |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| > | command | context | pos | action | > |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| > | c-ret | any | any | create headline above ENTRY | > | m-ret | headline or item | beg | create new above header/item | > | m-ret | headline or item | middle | split | > | m-ret | headline or item | end | create new below header/item | > | m-ret | line | beg | create headline above LINE | > | m-ret twice | line | beg | create item above line | > | m-ret | line | middle | turn line into a headline | > | m-ret twice | line | middle | turn line into an item | > | m-ret | line | end | create headline below line | > | m-ret twice | line | end | create item below line | > |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| > > Notes: > > - C-RET (in all contexts) creates new headline ABOVE (not > below) the current entry > > - "beg" does not only refer to beginning of line. it also > refers to the blank spaces before a list item or stars > and space in a headline > > I should mention that M-RET still takes several seconds. > > Also, C-RET and M-RET currently seem to be identical? Yes, that was part of the problem -- too many keys doing the same thing. I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET used to do. Also, the above provides a whole lot of options for creating a new headline/item above the current line -- is that really such a common thing to do? And the variable `org-M-RET-may-split-line' is still not taken into account... Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-16 3:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen @ 2013-05-16 3:42 ` Samuel Wales 2013-05-16 11:49 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-16 7:22 ` Daniel Bausch ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Samuel Wales @ 2013-05-16 3:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi Eric, On 5/15/13, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote: > I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new > headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET > used to do. This might be a good thing to make a user preference. > Also, the above provides a whole lot of options for creating a new > headline/item above the current line -- is that really such a common > thing to do? It is for me. > And the variable `org-M-RET-may-split-line' is still not taken into > account... I don't see why it shouldn't be taken into account. Samuel -- The Kafka Pandemic: http://thekafkapandemic.blogspot.com The disease DOES progress. MANY people have died from it. ANYBODY can get it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-16 3:42 ` Samuel Wales @ 2013-05-16 11:49 ` Eric Abrahamsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2013-05-16 11:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes: > Hi Eric, > > On 5/15/13, Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> wrote: >> I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new >> headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET >> used to do. > > This might be a good thing to make a user preference. > >> Also, the above provides a whole lot of options for creating a new >> headline/item above the current line -- is that really such a common >> thing to do? > > It is for me. > >> And the variable `org-M-RET-may-split-line' is still not taken into >> account... > > I don't see why it shouldn't be taken into account. You're right, I guess I just meant it wasn't explicit in your table. I like the use of double M-RETs, I think that can be useful. I still think C-RET should create a new heading at the end of the subtree. A user setting to that effect is fine with me. I'd be happy if C-RET at the beginning of a heading created a new headline above, but in the middle or at the end I think it should still jump down and make a new headline below all content. Just to register my usage, as a single data point: I make heavy use of both M-RET to create headings below point (very often to split a single run of paragraphs into two subtrees), and C-RET to make headings below subtree text. Very occasionally I use C-u C-u M-RET to make a "bottom sibling". Very occasionally I use 'C-c *' to toggle heading. Just two cents. E ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-16 3:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-16 3:42 ` Samuel Wales @ 2013-05-16 7:22 ` Daniel Bausch 2013-05-16 9:21 ` Detlef Steuer 2013-05-16 13:48 ` Rick Frankel 2013-05-16 16:10 ` Eric S Fraga 3 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Daniel Bausch @ 2013-05-16 7:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Hi! > I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new > headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET > used to do. I like to second, that there needs to be a short key binding to insert a new headline below the current entry when the context is in the middle. (Could be C-M-RET or at least C-u C-RET, although I'm very used to type C-RET for doing that.). Regards, Daniel Bausch ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-16 7:22 ` Daniel Bausch @ 2013-05-16 9:21 ` Detlef Steuer 0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Detlef Steuer @ 2013-05-16 9:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode On Thu, 16 May 2013 09:22:30 +0200 Daniel Bausch <DanielBausch@gmx.de> wrote: > Hi! > > > I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new > > headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET > > used to do. > > I like to second, that there needs to be a short key binding to insert a > new headline below the current entry when the context is in the middle. > (Could be C-M-RET or at least C-u C-RET, although I'm very used to type > C-RET for doing that.). +1 Regards Detlef > > Regards, > Daniel Bausch > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-16 3:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-16 3:42 ` Samuel Wales 2013-05-16 7:22 ` Daniel Bausch @ 2013-05-16 13:48 ` Rick Frankel 2013-05-16 16:10 ` Eric S Fraga 3 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Rick Frankel @ 2013-05-16 13:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode On 2013-05-15 23:17, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes: > Also, C-RET and M-RET currently seem to be identical? > > I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a > new > headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET > used to do. > > Also, the above provides a whole lot of options for creating a new > headline/item above the current line -- is that really such a common > thing to do? > Agreed. Personally, i rarely need to insert headlines/items above the current line. Actually, the thing I find myself wanting a key for is inserting a child headline between a headline and it's body text -- I often find myself wanting to break up a section into new sub-sections. e.g, turning #+BEGIN_SRC org * Headline para 1 para 2 #+END_SRC into #+BEGIN_SRC org * Headline ** Subhead 1 para 1 ** Subhead 2 para2 #+BEGIN_SRC org rick ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-16 3:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2013-05-16 13:48 ` Rick Frankel @ 2013-05-16 16:10 ` Eric S Fraga 3 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Eric S Fraga @ 2013-05-16 16:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes: > Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes: > >> How about this? IMO this would be ideal. >> >> - M-RET is for the current context >> - C-RET is for a new context [...] > I still think it's pretty important to have an option for creating a new > headline *below* all the contents of the current subtree -- what C-RET > used to do. +1. I do not like the new behaviour at all. C-RET is wired into my brain and I am used to using it *all* the time without worrying about where point actually is. I seldom use M-RET other than on items. -- : Eric S Fraga, GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D : in Emacs 24.3.50.1 and Org release_8.0.2-103-gb3a88b ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-15 18:39 ` Samuel Wales 2013-05-16 3:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen @ 2013-05-16 6:21 ` Bastien 2013-05-16 9:23 ` Miro Bezjak ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Bastien @ 2013-05-16 6:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Samuel Wales; +Cc: Eric Abrahamsen, emacs-orgmode Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes: > |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| > | command | context | pos | action | > |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| > | c-ret | any | any | create headline above ENTRY | > | m-ret | headline or item | beg | create new above header/item | > | m-ret | headline or item | middle | split | > | m-ret | headline or item | end | create new below header/item | > | m-ret | line | beg | create headline above LINE | > | m-ret twice | line | beg | create item above line | > | m-ret | line | middle | turn line into a headline | > | m-ret twice | line | middle | turn line into an item | > | m-ret | line | end | create headline below line | > | m-ret twice | line | end | create item below line | > |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| Thanks a lot Samuel for writing this. Just a quick note to tell you that this discussion *is* important, and well read, as we plan to rewrite those functions. Presenting features wrt contexts so clearly is great -- thanks for doing this. -- Bastien ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-16 6:21 ` Bastien @ 2013-05-16 9:23 ` Miro Bezjak 2013-05-16 19:11 ` Jason F. McBrayer 2013-05-17 13:26 ` Carsten Dominik 2 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Miro Bezjak @ 2013-05-16 9:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: Eric Abrahamsen, emacs-orgmode [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1575 bytes --] Once this gets implemented I'd really like to see the same table in org manual. It's a really good summary. Regards, Miro On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 8:21 AM, Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> wrote: > Samuel Wales <samologist@gmail.com> writes: > > > > |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| > > | command | context | pos | action > | > > > |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| > > | c-ret | any | any | create headline above ENTRY > | > > | m-ret | headline or item | beg | create new above header/item > | > > | m-ret | headline or item | middle | split > | > > | m-ret | headline or item | end | create new below header/item > | > > | m-ret | line | beg | create headline above LINE > | > > | m-ret twice | line | beg | create item above line > | > > | m-ret | line | middle | turn line into a headline > | > > | m-ret twice | line | middle | turn line into an item > | > > | m-ret | line | end | create headline below line > | > > | m-ret twice | line | end | create item below line > | > > > |-------------+------------------+--------+------------------------------| > > Thanks a lot Samuel for writing this. > > Just a quick note to tell you that this discussion *is* important, > and well read, as we plan to rewrite those functions. Presenting > features wrt contexts so clearly is great -- thanks for doing this. > > -- > Bastien > > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2309 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-16 6:21 ` Bastien 2013-05-16 9:23 ` Miro Bezjak @ 2013-05-16 19:11 ` Jason F. McBrayer 2013-05-17 11:20 ` Carsten Dominik 2013-05-17 13:26 ` Carsten Dominik 2 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Jason F. McBrayer @ 2013-05-16 19:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes: > Thanks a lot Samuel for writing this. > > Just a quick note to tell you that this discussion *is* important, > and well read, as we plan to rewrite those functions. Presenting > features wrt contexts so clearly is great -- thanks for doing this. Another thing to take into account in the rewrite is doing the right thing even when electric-indent-mode or electric-layout-mode are enabled. The current implementation is not compatible with electric-indent-mode. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in | | battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one | | is the greatest of all conquerors. --- The Dhammapada | ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-16 19:11 ` Jason F. McBrayer @ 2013-05-17 11:20 ` Carsten Dominik 2013-05-17 13:42 ` Jason F. McBrayer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Carsten Dominik @ 2013-05-17 11:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jason F. McBrayer; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On 16.5.2013, at 21:11, Jason F. McBrayer <jmcbray@carcosa.net> wrote: > Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> writes: > >> Thanks a lot Samuel for writing this. >> >> Just a quick note to tell you that this discussion *is* important, >> and well read, as we plan to rewrite those functions. Presenting >> features wrt contexts so clearly is great -- thanks for doing this. > > Another thing to take into account in the rewrite is doing the right > thing even when electric-indent-mode or electric-layout-mode are > enabled. The current implementation is not compatible with > electric-indent-mode. Never heard about these - need to look them up. - Carsten > > -- > +-----------------------------------------------------------+ > | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | > | If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in | > | battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one | > | is the greatest of all conquerors. --- The Dhammapada | > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-17 11:20 ` Carsten Dominik @ 2013-05-17 13:42 ` Jason F. McBrayer 0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Jason F. McBrayer @ 2013-05-17 13:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> writes: > On 16.5.2013, at 21:11, Jason F. McBrayer <jmcbray@carcosa.net> wrote: >> Another thing to take into account in the rewrite is doing the right >> thing even when electric-indent-mode or electric-layout-mode are >> enabled. The current implementation is not compatible with >> electric-indent-mode. > > Never heard about these - need to look them up. I think they were introduced in Emacs 24, to replace globally the various hacks people were using previously. I found a workaround online at [[http://foldl.me/2012/disabling-electric-indent-mode/][foldl]]. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------+ | Jason F. McBrayer jmcbray@carcosa.net | | If someone conquers a thousand times a thousand others in | | battle, and someone else conquers himself, the latter one | | is the greatest of all conquerors. --- The Dhammapada | ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-16 6:21 ` Bastien 2013-05-16 9:23 ` Miro Bezjak 2013-05-16 19:11 ` Jason F. McBrayer @ 2013-05-17 13:26 ` Carsten Dominik 2013-05-17 19:07 ` Rick Frankel 2 siblings, 1 reply; 24+ messages in thread From: Carsten Dominik @ 2013-05-17 13:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bastien; +Cc: Eric Abrahamsen, emacs-orgmode Hi everyone, yes, thanks for making this table, Samuel. I think the functionality is a bit overkill, in particular the implementation with pressing M-RET twice for special functionality. This becomes too confusing, I think. The elementary function of M-RET is continue in the current list/outline. C-RET is a way to get out of list environments and to get a new heading. Both are entirely necessary when taking notes, IMO. So I would propose the following adapted version of Samuel's table: |-------------+------------------+--------+--------------------------------| | command | context | pos | action | |-------------+------------------+--------+--------------------------------| | c-ret | any | any | create headline below entry | | m-ret | headline or item | beg | create new above header/item | | m-ret | headline or item | middle | split | | m-ret | headline or item | end | create new below header/item | | m-ret | line | beg | turn into headline, this is | | | | | just a special case of split | | m-ret | line | middle | turn rest of line into heading | | m-ret | line | end | new heading after line | | C-o M-ret | line | beg | new heading before line | |-------------+------------------+--------+--------------------------------| There was discussion about `C-c *'. For me the main application of this command it to turn an item into a headline, and to turn *several* lines into a series of headline (by selecting the lines first) - this is a very frequent application when I paste text that I then need to structure. Nobody mentioned this in this thread, so maybe this feature is not known well enough. - Carsten ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
* Re: M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? 2013-05-17 13:26 ` Carsten Dominik @ 2013-05-17 19:07 ` Rick Frankel 0 siblings, 0 replies; 24+ messages in thread From: Rick Frankel @ 2013-05-17 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Carsten Dominik; +Cc: Bastien, Eric Abrahamsen, emacs-orgmode On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 03:26:09PM +0200, Carsten Dominik wrote: > There was discussion about `C-c *'. For me the main application > of this command it to turn an item into a headline, and to turn *several* > lines into a series of headline (by selecting the lines first) - this is > a very frequent application when I paste text that I then need to structure. > Nobody mentioned this in this thread, so maybe this feature is not known > well enough. I use `C-c *' and `C-c -' to turn lists <-> headlines all the time... ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 24+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2013-05-20 18:41 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 24+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2013-05-15 4:58 M-RET and C-RET turn current line of text into a heading? Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-15 7:54 ` Christian Moe 2013-05-15 8:22 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-15 9:01 ` Christian Moe 2013-05-15 9:30 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-20 15:54 ` John Hendy 2013-05-20 16:00 ` John Hendy 2013-05-20 16:14 ` Matt Lundin 2013-05-20 18:41 ` John Hendy 2013-05-15 18:39 ` Samuel Wales 2013-05-16 3:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-16 3:42 ` Samuel Wales 2013-05-16 11:49 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2013-05-16 7:22 ` Daniel Bausch 2013-05-16 9:21 ` Detlef Steuer 2013-05-16 13:48 ` Rick Frankel 2013-05-16 16:10 ` Eric S Fraga 2013-05-16 6:21 ` Bastien 2013-05-16 9:23 ` Miro Bezjak 2013-05-16 19:11 ` Jason F. McBrayer 2013-05-17 11:20 ` Carsten Dominik 2013-05-17 13:42 ` Jason F. McBrayer 2013-05-17 13:26 ` Carsten Dominik 2013-05-17 19:07 ` Rick Frankel
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