* AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group @ 2010-06-22 21:19 Hellekin O. Wolf 2010-06-22 22:09 ` Bernt Hansen 2010-06-23 6:41 ` Sven Bretfeld 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Hellekin O. Wolf @ 2010-06-22 21:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-orgmode Hello list, I'm quite impressed posting on this list of genious coders who brought such a powerful tool as org-mode. Not honey-licking your shoes. Being allergic to linear time and its implementation (calendars, clocks...), I found org-mode of great help when dealing with normal people. Using the ! flag to Orgmode TODO states, I can track time without having to look at it. Wew! But let's get to the point. Jaromil, Yaakov and I started AutOrg, as a way to combine different goals, the main drive being Yaakov wanting us to use GTD in org-mode. Thus we started thinking about AutOrg, an autonomous, distributed information system based on Orgmode and Git. One of the obvious issue that came up concerns the ways to "share GTD", i.e. to apply it to groups. GTD is a methodology for the individual, and each individual tends to tailor it to her own world-view. I explain the kind of issues more in depth in the AutOrg documentation[1], but I want to keep this reasonably short. How do you guys use CATEGORIES, PROPERTIES and TAGS in combination with TODO states and Org-Agenda to optimize your GTD workflow? What strategy do you take when you have a personal SEQ_TODO and need to work with other people, using a different SEQ_TODO? Cheers, == hk [1] http://code.dyne.org/index.cgi?url=autorg/tree/doc/TODO.org section "GTD for groups" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group 2010-06-22 21:19 AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group Hellekin O. Wolf @ 2010-06-22 22:09 ` Bernt Hansen 2010-06-23 17:41 ` Hellekin O. Wolf 2010-06-23 6:41 ` Sven Bretfeld 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Bernt Hansen @ 2010-06-22 22:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hellekin O. Wolf; +Cc: emacs-orgmode "Hellekin O. Wolf" <hellekin@cepheide.org> writes: > How do you guys use CATEGORIES, PROPERTIES and TAGS in combination > with TODO states and Org-Agenda to optimize your GTD workflow? I use CATEGORIES mainly as a visual cue in my agenda to help categories tasks. Other than that it doesn't really do anything in my setup. TAGS I use for context and other convenient filters for grouping tasks. You can easily filter (removing or adding tasks) in the agenda by tag. I use PROPERTIES for effort estimates, blocking control, recording when tasks repeated last (for cyclic tasks) etc. TODO states are for action items (TODO, NEXT, DONE, CANCELLED, WAITING etc). > What strategy do you take when you have a personal SEQ_TODO and need > to work with other people, using a different SEQ_TODO? I would defined the SEQ_TODO in the file with #+TODO: TODO NEXT | DONE (or whatever is appropriate for that file). That overrides any global todo settings. All of my gory setup details are at http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html HTH, Bernt ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group 2010-06-22 22:09 ` Bernt Hansen @ 2010-06-23 17:41 ` Hellekin O. Wolf 0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Hellekin O. Wolf @ 2010-06-23 17:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bernt Hansen; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 06:09:36PM -0400, Bernt Hansen wrote: > > I would defined the SEQ_TODO in the file with #+TODO: TODO NEXT | DONE > (or whatever is appropriate for that file). That overrides any global > todo settings. > *** Thank you for your suggestions, Bernt! > All of my gory setup details are at http://doc.norang.ca/org-mode.html > *** Yes, I've seen that before. That tutorial has my preference so far. :) == hk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group 2010-06-22 21:19 AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group Hellekin O. Wolf 2010-06-22 22:09 ` Bernt Hansen @ 2010-06-23 6:41 ` Sven Bretfeld 2010-06-24 13:00 ` Hellekin O. Wolf 1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread From: Sven Bretfeld @ 2010-06-23 6:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hellekin O. Wolf; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi Hellekin "Hellekin O. Wolf" <hellekin@cepheide.org> writes: > How do you guys use CATEGORIES, PROPERTIES and TAGS in combination > with TODO states and Org-Agenda to optimize your GTD workflow? I'm also into GTD. This is a typical entry I use for a project. * Misc Office ** Rewrite study course documents :PROJECT: *** NEXT Rework Text :HOME: :PROPERTIES: :TRIGGER: chain-siblings(NEXT) :END: *** Mail Text to Volkhard :OFFICE: *** Discuss Text with Volkhard :OFFICE: :PROPERTIES: :dowith: volkhard :END: *** Mail Text to other Profs :OFFICE: Explanation: First level is for divisions of my life (here: Misc Office, others are Family, Teaching, Research etc.). The second level I use to denote projects (in the GTD meaning) or for some small tasks which include only one physical action. In the first case I use no todo keyword and only the PROJECT tag (to create a list of projects and to define what a stuck project is). In the second case, I would give the NEXT keyword already on the second level (not shown here). The third level is for the physical actions of the project. As you see, only the first has a todo keyword (NEXT). The others are dependent from the first (cannot be done before the first is done) and have only a context tag. My context tags include things like HOME, OFFICE, SHOPPING, TRAIN etc. When the first NEXT action is done, the next NEXT action in the list gains the NEXT todo keyword automatically; this is what the TRIGGER property cares for. In that way my Agenda Views (defined as NEXT/HOME, NEXT/OFFICE etc.) display only next actions that can be done immediately. As I'm working in a team, I have long searched for a way to tell Orgmode who is with me at a certain moment and display the things that have to be done together with the(se) person(s). I have recently discovered org-secretary for that purpose. For the above case, if Volkard enters my office, I tell Emacs that he is now with me, and a special agenda view displays all the things I want to do with him. This is what the "dowith" property is for. Apart from PROJECTS and contexts I have two more tags defined: BIGROCK and MIT. The first is given to projects that I want to concentrate on this week (never more than 3 projects contain that tag). MIT means "Most Important Thing (of the day)". I use this tag to mark three to four NEXT actions every night. These are the first things I care for on the next day. > What strategy do you take when you have a personal SEQ_TODO and need > to work with other people, using a different SEQ_TODO? Have a look on org-secretary. Greetings, Sven ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group 2010-06-23 6:41 ` Sven Bretfeld @ 2010-06-24 13:00 ` Hellekin O. Wolf 2010-06-24 13:21 ` Jason McBrayer 2010-06-27 20:16 ` Sven Bretfeld 0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Hellekin O. Wolf @ 2010-06-24 13:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Sven Bretfeld; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Wow, thank you Sven... On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 08:41:22AM +0200, Sven Bretfeld wrote: > > The third level is for the physical actions of the project. As you see, > only the first has a todo keyword (NEXT). The others are dependent from > the first (cannot be done before the first is done) and have only a > context tag. My context tags include things like HOME, OFFICE, SHOPPING, > TRAIN etc. When the first NEXT action is done, the next NEXT action in > the list gains the NEXT todo keyword automatically; this is what the > TRIGGER property cares for. In that way my Agenda Views (defined as > NEXT/HOME, NEXT/OFFICE etc.) display only next actions that can be done > immediately. > *** I like the concept of "chained actions" and the TRIGGER property. Very smart, the auto-assignment to NEXT keeps you busy and focused, and saves a number of key-strokes. But I guess that implies multiple NEXT items. Do you maintain several of those, or one per project? Maybe I'm wrong--I didn't even read the GTD book thoroughly yet--but I like having *one* NEXT action, so that I don't get stuck with too many "next" things. I can understand one NEXT action per project, but several within a single project raises internal warnings. > As I'm working in a team, I have long searched for a way to tell Orgmode > who is with me at a certain moment and display the things that have to > be done together with the(se) person(s). I have recently discovered > org-secretary for that purpose. For the above case, if Volkard enters my > office, I tell Emacs that he is now with me, and a special agenda view > displays all the things I want to do with him. This is what the "dowith" > property is for. > *** All right, so I'm looking up org-secretary.el. I like this approach. > Apart from PROJECTS and contexts I have two more tags defined: BIGROCK > and MIT. The first is given to projects that I want to concentrate on > this week (never more than 3 projects contain that tag). MIT means "Most > Important Thing (of the day)". I use this tag to mark three to four NEXT > actions every night. These are the first things I care for on the next > day. > *** So you do maintain multiple NEXT actions per project? Thank you again for your invaluable input. == hk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group 2010-06-24 13:00 ` Hellekin O. Wolf @ 2010-06-24 13:21 ` Jason McBrayer 2010-06-27 20:16 ` Sven Bretfeld 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Jason McBrayer @ 2010-06-24 13:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hellekin O. Wolf; +Cc: emacs-orgmode On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Hellekin O. Wolf <hellekin@cepheide.org> wrote: > *** So you do maintain multiple NEXT actions per project? Butting in on this, since I GTD with org-mode, and think the autorg site is kind of neat, I do maintain multiple NEXT actions per project. The caveat is that they must meet the following conditions: 1. Be independent of each other 2. All be currently doable in terms of resources and dependencies 3. Be feasible to get done before the next weekly review Having more than one NEXT action on a project lets you move a project forward even when you don't have the time/energy for one of them. The caveat is that you can't let it become a to-do list. That's what #3 is meant to avoid. I struggle with this, but for me it's mainly a result of having too many projects, so limiting myself to one next action on a project wouldn't be that helpful. -- Jason F. McBrayer http://jfm.carcosa.net/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group 2010-06-24 13:00 ` Hellekin O. Wolf 2010-06-24 13:21 ` Jason McBrayer @ 2010-06-27 20:16 ` Sven Bretfeld 1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread From: Sven Bretfeld @ 2010-06-27 20:16 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Hellekin O. Wolf; +Cc: emacs-orgmode Hi Hellekin "Hellekin O. Wolf" <hellekin@cepheide.org> writes: > On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 08:41:22AM +0200, Sven Bretfeld wrote: >> >> The third level is for the physical actions of the project. As you see, >> only the first has a todo keyword (NEXT). The others are dependent from >> the first (cannot be done before the first is done) and have only a >> context tag. My context tags include things like HOME, OFFICE, SHOPPING, >> TRAIN etc. When the first NEXT action is done, the next NEXT action in >> the list gains the NEXT todo keyword automatically; this is what the >> TRIGGER property cares for. In that way my Agenda Views (defined as >> NEXT/HOME, NEXT/OFFICE etc.) display only next actions that can be done >> immediately. >> > *** I like the concept of "chained actions" and the TRIGGER property. > Very smart, the auto-assignment to NEXT keeps you busy and focused, > and saves a number of key-strokes. > > But I guess that implies multiple NEXT items. Do you maintain several > of those, or one per project? Maybe I'm wrong--I didn't even read the > GTD book thoroughly yet--but I like having *one* NEXT action, so that > I don't get stuck with too many "next" things. I can understand one > NEXT action per project, but several within a single project raises > internal warnings. I think one of the main points in GTD is splitting up a task into multiple physical actions (potential NEXT steps) which can be done one after another depending on the available time, energy level and context. Usually they build up a procedural chain of actions that gradually bring the project to fulfillment. Sometimes there are actions that don't form part of the chain, because they can be done independently from previous steps. I usually put these things at the end of the project's action-list an give them the NEXT status right from the start. For example, this weekend I made my flat secure for my 8 months old son who just starts to crawl and touches every cable he can put his hands on: * Family ** Secure the apartment for the baby :PROJECT: *** NEXT Buy items [0/4] :SHOPPING: - [ ] devices to secure power outlets - [ ] sticky tape - [ ] wire protecting sleeves - [ ] new screws for the baby's bed :PROPERTIES: :TRIGGER: chain-siblings(NEXT) :END: *** secure all power outlets [0/6] :HOME: - [ ] living room - [ ] bathroom - [ ] sleeping room - [ ] child's room - [ ] corridor - [ ] kitchen *** tie all cables with tape :HOME: *** fix the baby bed :HOME: *** NEXT remove loose objects from small tables :HOME: The project has 5 physical actions. Four of them are dependent: First I have to buy what I need, then I can start working. So I buy the items and tick them of in the list one after another as I buy them (C-c C-c in such a list ticks the items and changes the number in the brackets). After I have them all, I set "Buy items" to DONE. Then "secure all power outlets" automatically gets the NEXT status, and so on. As you see, the fifth item "remove loose objects from small tables" can be done without buying anything. So I give it the NEXT status right from the start. It's important to place this item at the end of the list, so that it can't spoil the chain, if I give it the DONE status before the chained list is complete. In fact, for Emacs the last item is part of the chain, but that doesn't really matter in practice. All that could happen, is that I clear the tables before I have finished the other parts and set the fifth item to DONE. When I, then, set the "baby bed" item to DONE, the "loose objects" will get NEXT status again (I'm not quite sure if that really happens, I can't remember such a case). D. Allen recommends that you make a brainstorm when you are planning a project. What are the things I have to do in order to realize the plan? With orgmode you can make brainstorming very easy, just type M-RET and hack in what occurs to your mind. After that, sort the items into (sequential or independent) physical actions, references and so on. More often than not, your collection will still feature some items which are not physical actions, but sub-projects. If you notice that, you have to break them further down into physical actions. But, I think, you don't have to be too dogmatic with that. "Fix the baby bed" in fact consisted of more than one action (change screws, fix a certain plank, tie a cushion), but I had them all in mind and I planned to do them all simultaneously. So I didn't note them too accurately. Greetings, Sven ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2010-06-27 20:17 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 7+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2010-06-22 21:19 AutOrg, and practice of GTD in a group Hellekin O. Wolf 2010-06-22 22:09 ` Bernt Hansen 2010-06-23 17:41 ` Hellekin O. Wolf 2010-06-23 6:41 ` Sven Bretfeld 2010-06-24 13:00 ` Hellekin O. Wolf 2010-06-24 13:21 ` Jason McBrayer 2010-06-27 20:16 ` Sven Bretfeld
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).