* Effort entry and confusing effort estimates
@ 2013-05-21 0:32 Ken Mankoff
2013-05-21 3:22 ` Ken Mankoff
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Ken Mankoff @ 2013-05-21 0:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Org-mode
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Hi,
I'm looking into effort and time tracking and have a few questions about
efforts,
1) What is the difference between C-c C-x C-e and C-c C-x e?
When I set an effort while clocked in, C-c C-x C-e asks for an effort and
formats it in a format I understand such as 00:30 or 1d. When not clocked
in, I have to use C-c C-x e (no CTRL for the last one) and it doesn't seem
to parse my entry for a timestamp or convert from 8h to 1d. For example, I
can enter an effort of "aoeu" and it accepts that.
2) When clocked in and using C-c C-x C-e, the conversion seems buggy:
I enter -> converted to
1d -> 08:00
2d -> 16:00
3d -> 1d 00:00
4d -> 1d 08:00
7d -> 2d 08:00
1w -> 1d 16:00
I get that 1 day is 8 hours, and 2d 8h == 1d 16h, but I'm still confused
why 2d is 16h and 3d is 1d.
Thanks,
-k.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Effort entry and confusing effort estimates
2013-05-21 0:32 Effort entry and confusing effort estimates Ken Mankoff
@ 2013-05-21 3:22 ` Ken Mankoff
2013-05-21 10:39 ` Bastien
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Ken Mankoff @ 2013-05-21 3:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Org-mode
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Doh. I get the math now. 3d is 3*8h = 1d. Ok. Confusing but I get it.
But I'm still confused what 'org-set-effort' expects/interprets compared to
'org-clock-modify-effort-estimate'. Any clarification will be much
appreciated.
Thanks,
-k.
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking into effort and time tracking and have a few questions about
> efforts,
>
> 1) What is the difference between C-c C-x C-e and C-c C-x e?
>
> When I set an effort while clocked in, C-c C-x C-e asks for an effort and
> formats it in a format I understand such as 00:30 or 1d. When not clocked
> in, I have to use C-c C-x e (no CTRL for the last one) and it doesn't seem
> to parse my entry for a timestamp or convert from 8h to 1d. For example, I
> can enter an effort of "aoeu" and it accepts that.
>
> 2) When clocked in and using C-c C-x C-e, the conversion seems buggy:
>
> I enter -> converted to
> 1d -> 08:00
> 2d -> 16:00
> 3d -> 1d 00:00
> 4d -> 1d 08:00
> 7d -> 2d 08:00
> 1w -> 1d 16:00
>
> I get that 1 day is 8 hours, and 2d 8h == 1d 16h, but I'm still confused
> why 2d is 16h and 3d is 1d.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -k.
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Effort entry and confusing effort estimates
2013-05-21 3:22 ` Ken Mankoff
@ 2013-05-21 10:39 ` Bastien
2013-05-21 11:52 ` Lawrence Mitchell
2013-05-21 13:10 ` Effort entry and confusing effort estimates Ken Mankoff
0 siblings, 2 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2013-05-21 10:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ken Mankoff; +Cc: Org-mode
Hi Ken,
Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:
> But I'm still confused what 'org-set-effort' expects/interprets
> compared to 'org-clock-modify-effort-estimate'. Any clarification
> will be much appreciated.
`org-set-effort' allows you to _set_ the effort value.
`org-clock-modify-effort-estimate' allows you to either set the effort
value (e.g. if you enter 1:30, the old value will be replaced by this
one) or to increment/decrement the effort value by using +mm or
+n[hdwmy] -- e.g. entering +1d will increment the current value by 1
day. "1 day" is interpreted depending on `org-effort-durations',
which see.
Hope this clarifies,
--
Bastien
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Effort entry and confusing effort estimates
2013-05-21 10:39 ` Bastien
@ 2013-05-21 11:52 ` Lawrence Mitchell
2013-05-21 12:22 ` Bastien
2013-05-21 13:10 ` Effort entry and confusing effort estimates Ken Mankoff
1 sibling, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Lawrence Mitchell @ 2013-05-21 11:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Bastien wrote:
> Hi Ken,
> Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:
>> But I'm still confused what 'org-set-effort' expects/interprets
>> compared to 'org-clock-modify-effort-estimate'. Any clarification
>> will be much appreciated.
> `org-set-effort' allows you to _set_ the effort value.
> `org-clock-modify-effort-estimate' allows you to either set the effort
> value (e.g. if you enter 1:30, the old value will be replaced by this
> one) or to increment/decrement the effort value by using +mm or
> +n[hdwmy] -- e.g. entering +1d will increment the current value by 1
> day. "1 day" is interpreted depending on `org-effort-durations',
> which see.
I think the problem is slightly more complicated.
org-set-effort does:
read some effort duration
(org-entry-put nil "Effort" duration-we-just-read)
org-clock-modify-effort-estimate does:
read some effort duration
(org-duration-string-to-minutes value)
convert this duration in minutes back to a string
(org-minutes-to-clocksum-string minutes-corresponding-to-value)
(org-entry-put nil "Effort" duration-we-just-calculated)
So org-set-effort doesn't do any conversion of the effort string
we enter.
org-clock-modify-effort-estimate does do conversion. However, it
does it badly.
org-duration-string-to-minutes always uses org-effort-durations
to convert the input string to minutes. However,
org-minutes-to-clocksum-string /only/ uses org-effort-durations
if org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations is non-nil (not the
default).
The problem boils down to:
(let ((org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations nil))
(= (org-duration-string-to-minutes "3d 2h") ;; what the user entered
(org-duration-string-to-minutes ;; what gets inserted
(org-minutes-to-clocksum-string
(org-duration-string-to-minutes "3d 2h")))))
=> nil
(let ((org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations t))
(= (org-duration-string-to-minutes "3d 2h") ;; what the user entered
(org-duration-string-to-minutes ;; what gets inserted
(org-minutes-to-clocksum-string
(org-duration-string-to-minutes "3d 2h")))))
=> t
I would argue that
(org-duration-string-to-minutes
(org-minutes-to-clocksum-string
(org-duration-string-to-minutes some-value)))
Should be a no-op. But that is only the case if
org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations is t.
Lawrence
--
Lawrence Mitchell <wence@gmx.li>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread* Re: Effort entry and confusing effort estimates
2013-05-21 11:52 ` Lawrence Mitchell
@ 2013-05-21 12:22 ` Bastien
2013-05-28 11:13 ` [PATCH] Remove org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations Lawrence Mitchell
0 siblings, 1 reply; 7+ messages in thread
From: Bastien @ 2013-05-21 12:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Lawrence Mitchell; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Hi Lawrence,
Lawrence Mitchell <wence@gmx.li> writes:
> I would argue that
>
> (org-duration-string-to-minutes
> (org-minutes-to-clocksum-string
> (org-duration-string-to-minutes some-value)))
>
> Should be a no-op. But that is only the case if
> org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations is t.
Agreed. Thanks for the clear explanations. Can you provide a patch
to get the correct behavior? At the time, I could not closely watch
the side-effect of introducing `org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations'
and this is clearly one of them.
Thanks in advance!
--
Bastien
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* [PATCH] Remove org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations
2013-05-21 12:22 ` Bastien
@ 2013-05-28 11:13 ` Lawrence Mitchell
0 siblings, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Lawrence Mitchell @ 2013-05-28 11:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode; +Cc: Carsten Dominik
* lisp/org.el (org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations): Remove
variable.
(org-minutes-to-clocksum-string): Remove references.
* lisp/org-clock.el (org-clocktable-write-default): Remove
references.
We would like the following identity to hold:
(= (org-duration-string-to-minutes "3d 2h")
(org-duration-string-to-minutes
(org-minutes-to-clocksum-string
(org-duration-string-to-minutes "3d 2h")))))
Previously, this was only true if org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations
was non-nil (not the default), since org-duration-string-to-minutes
unconditionally looks at org-effort-durations, whereas
org-minutes-to-clocksum-string only considers it if
org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations is non-nil. To remove
confusion, since org uses org-effort-durations unconditionally
everywhere else when interpreting duration strings, just remove this
customisation option and use org-effort-durations in
org-minutes-to-clocksum-string as well.
---
lisp/org-clock.el | 2 --
lisp/org.el | 32 ++++++--------------------------
2 files changed, 6 insertions(+), 28 deletions(-)
Bastien wrote:
> Hi Lawrence,
> Lawrence Mitchell <wence@gmx.li> writes:
>> I would argue that
>> (org-duration-string-to-minutes
>> (org-minutes-to-clocksum-string
>> (org-duration-string-to-minutes some-value)))
>> Should be a no-op. But that is only the case if
>> org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations is t.
> Agreed. Thanks for the clear explanations. Can you provide a patch
> to get the correct behavior? At the time, I could not closely watch
> the side-effect of introducing `org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations'
> and this is clearly one of them.
Here we go. I think the right thing to do is just remove
org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations completely. If this is
wanted, I can add the appropriate entry to ORG-NEWS as well.
Lawrence
diff --git a/lisp/org-clock.el b/lisp/org-clock.el
index 8ac215e..cc6b9c1 100644
--- a/lisp/org-clock.el
+++ b/lisp/org-clock.el
@@ -2337,8 +2337,6 @@ from the dynamic block definition."
(maxlevel (or (plist-get params :maxlevel) 3))
(emph (plist-get params :emphasize))
(level-p (plist-get params :level))
- (org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations
- (plist-get params :effort-durations))
(timestamp (plist-get params :timestamp))
(properties (plist-get params :properties))
(ntcol (max 1 (or (plist-get params :tcolumns) 100)))
diff --git a/lisp/org.el b/lisp/org.el
index adb5fb1..581536d 100644
--- a/lisp/org.el
+++ b/lisp/org.el
@@ -2978,20 +2978,6 @@ See `org-time-clocksum-format' for more on time clock formats."
:version "24.3"
:type 'boolean)
-(defcustom org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations nil
- "When non-nil, \\[org-clock-display] uses effort durations.
-E.g. by default, one day is considered to be a 8 hours effort,
-so a task that has been clocked for 16 hours will be displayed
-as during 2 days in the clock display or in the clocktable.
-
-See `org-effort-durations' on how to set effort durations
-and `org-time-clocksum-format' for more on time clock formats."
- :group 'org-time
- :group 'org-clock
- :version "24.4"
- :package-version '(Org . "8.0")
- :type 'boolean)
-
(defcustom org-time-clocksum-fractional-format "%.2f"
"The format string used when creating CLOCKSUM lines,
or when Org mode generates a time duration, if
@@ -17521,21 +17507,15 @@ effort string \"2hours\" is equivalent to 120 minutes."
"Format number of minutes as a clocksum string.
The format is determined by `org-time-clocksum-format',
`org-time-clocksum-use-fractional' and
-`org-time-clocksum-fractional-format' and
-`org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations'."
+`org-time-clocksum-fractional-format'."
(let ((clocksum "")
(m (round m)) ; Don't allow fractions of minutes
h d w mo y fmt n)
- (setq h (if org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations
- (cdr (assoc "h" org-effort-durations)) 60)
- d (if org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations
- (/ (cdr (assoc "d" org-effort-durations)) h) 24)
- w (if org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations
- (/ (cdr (assoc "w" org-effort-durations)) (* d h)) 7)
- mo (if org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations
- (/ (cdr (assoc "m" org-effort-durations)) (* d h)) 30)
- y (if org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations
- (/ (cdr (assoc "y" org-effort-durations)) (* d h)) 365))
+ (setq h (or (cdr (assoc "h" org-effort-durations)) 60)
+ d (or (/ (cdr (assoc "d" org-effort-durations)) h) 24)
+ w (or (/ (cdr (assoc "w" org-effort-durations)) (* d h)) 7)
+ mo (or (/ (cdr (assoc "m" org-effort-durations)) (* d h)) 30)
+ y (or (/ (cdr (assoc "y" org-effort-durations)) (* d h)) 365))
;; fractional format
(if org-time-clocksum-use-fractional
(cond
--
1.8.2-rc3
^ permalink raw reply related [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
* Re: Effort entry and confusing effort estimates
2013-05-21 10:39 ` Bastien
2013-05-21 11:52 ` Lawrence Mitchell
@ 2013-05-21 13:10 ` Ken Mankoff
1 sibling, 0 replies; 7+ messages in thread
From: Ken Mankoff @ 2013-05-21 13:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bastien; +Cc: Org-mode
Hi Bastien,
On Tue, 21 May 2013, Bastien wrote:
> Ken Mankoff <mankoff@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> But I'm still confused what 'org-set-effort' expects/interprets
>> compared to 'org-clock-modify-effort-estimate'. Any clarification
>> will be much appreciated.
>
> `org-set-effort' allows you to _set_ the effort value.
>
> `org-clock-modify-effort-estimate' allows you to either set the
> effort value (e.g. if you enter 1:30, the old value will be
> replaced by this one) or to increment/decrement the effort value
> by using +mm or +n[hdwmy] -- e.g. entering +1d will increment the
> current value by 1 day. "1 day" is interpreted depending on
> `org-effort-durations', which see.
Thanks for the explanation. I guess I'm confused why one
formats/converts/checks the input and the other does not. I guess
this doesn't imply that org-set-effort does anything different, it
really is just a pure subset of org-clock-modify-effort-estimate.
Thanks,
-k.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 7+ messages in thread
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2013-05-21 0:32 Effort entry and confusing effort estimates Ken Mankoff
2013-05-21 3:22 ` Ken Mankoff
2013-05-21 10:39 ` Bastien
2013-05-21 11:52 ` Lawrence Mitchell
2013-05-21 12:22 ` Bastien
2013-05-28 11:13 ` [PATCH] Remove org-time-clocksum-use-effort-durations Lawrence Mitchell
2013-05-21 13:10 ` Effort entry and confusing effort estimates Ken Mankoff
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