emacs-orgmode@gnu.org archives
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed

* Point jumps when changing timestamps
@ 2011-08-03 14:18 Matt Lundin
  2011-08-04 16:01 ` Nicolas Goaziou
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
From: Matt Lundin @ 2011-08-03 14:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Org Mode

I often change timestamps  with S-Left or S-Right when the cursor is at
the point immediately following the timestamp:

<2011-08-03 Wed .+1d>
                     ^ cursor here

When I call S-Left or S-Right at this point, the cursor jumps to the
last character of the day of week abbreviation:

<2011-08-04 Thu .+1d>
              ^ cursor now here

The cursor does not jump if it is already located within the brackets.

Best,
Matt

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

• * Re: Point jumps when changing timestamps
    2011-08-03 14:18 Point jumps when changing timestamps Matt Lundin
  @ 2011-08-04 16:01 ` Nicolas Goaziou
    2011-08-04 16:39   ` Matt Lundin
    0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
  From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2011-08-04 16:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
    To: Matt Lundin; +Cc: Org Mode
  
  Hello,
  
  Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> writes:
  
  > I often change timestamps  with S-Left or S-Right when the cursor is at
  > the point immediately following the timestamp:
  >
  > <2011-08-03 Wed .+1d>
  >                      ^ cursor here
  >
  > When I call S-Left or S-Right at this point, the cursor jumps to the
  > last character of the day of week abbreviation:
  >
  > <2011-08-04 Thu .+1d>
  >               ^ cursor now here
  >
  > The cursor does not jump if it is already located within the brackets.
  
  I understand your point but I think Org shouldn't let you use
  `org-shiftleft' at this place in the first place. In my opinion,
  `org-at-timestamp-p' is faulty here.
  
  I know there is currently in that function a workaround to return t when
  point is at the char just after the time-stamp, but it just doesn't
  sound right to me.
  
  What do you think about it?
  
  Regards,
  
  -- 
  Nicolas Goaziou
  
  ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

• • * Re: Point jumps when changing timestamps
      2011-08-04 16:01 ` Nicolas Goaziou
    @ 2011-08-04 16:39   ` Matt Lundin
      2011-08-04 18:06     ` Nicolas Goaziou
      0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
    From: Matt Lundin @ 2011-08-04 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
      To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: Org Mode
    
    Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
    
    > Hello,
    >
    > Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> writes:
    >
    >> I often change timestamps  with S-Left or S-Right when the cursor is at
    >> the point immediately following the timestamp:
    >>
    >> <2011-08-03 Wed .+1d>
    >>                      ^ cursor here
    >>
    >> When I call S-Left or S-Right at this point, the cursor jumps to the
    >> last character of the day of week abbreviation:
    >>
    >> <2011-08-04 Thu .+1d>
    >>               ^ cursor now here
    >>
    >> The cursor does not jump if it is already located within the brackets.
    >
    > I understand your point but I think Org shouldn't let you use
    > `org-shiftleft' at this place in the first place. In my opinion,
    > `org-at-timestamp-p' is faulty here.
    
    A bit more generous org-at-timestamp-p does have some practical
    advantages: it can save cursor movement when navigating an org document.
    For instance, when navigating the following headline, I would typically
    type C-n C-e to go to the end of the scheduled line. That puts the
    cursor at the point directly after the scheduled timestamp:
    
    * A headline
      SCHEDULED: <2011-08-04 Thu>
                                 ^ i.e., here
    
    Having to move the cursor backwards one point would add a little bit of
    inconvenience.
    
    > I know there is currently in that function a workaround to return t when
    > point is at the char just after the time-stamp, but it just doesn't
    > sound right to me.
    
    I believe the current behavior of org-at-timestamp-p is consistent with
    that of the *-at-point functions. For instance if I call M-:
    (word-at-point) on the example below with the cursor immediately
    following the word, emacs returns "word".
    
    word
        ^ cursor here
    
    Best,
    Matt
    
    ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

  • • * Re: Point jumps when changing timestamps
        2011-08-04 16:39   ` Matt Lundin
      @ 2011-08-04 18:06     ` Nicolas Goaziou
        2011-08-04 18:45       ` Matt Lundin
        0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
      From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2011-08-04 18:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
        To: Matt Lundin; +Cc: Org Mode
      
      Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> writes:
      
      > A bit more generous org-at-timestamp-p does have some practical
      > advantages: it can save cursor movement when navigating an org document.
      > For instance, when navigating the following headline, I would typically
      > type C-n C-e to go to the end of the scheduled line. That puts the
      > cursor at the point directly after the scheduled timestamp:
      >
      > * A headline
      >   SCHEDULED: <2011-08-04 Thu>
      >                              ^ i.e., here
      >
      > Having to move the cursor backwards one point would add a little bit of
      > inconvenience.
      
      C-c C-s on the headline lets you modify more quickly the
      time-stamp. I may be missing the point, but that position has no
      particular interest.
      
      > I believe the current behavior of org-at-timestamp-p is consistent with
      > that of the *-at-point functions.
      
      Agreed. But, on the other hand, it isn't consistent with any similar Org
      function. Try `org-footnote-at-reference-p' just after a footnote
      reference or `org-context' just after a link. In both cases, point will
      be considered outside of the element.
      
      Regards,
      
      -- 
      Nicolas Goaziou
      
      ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

    • • * Re: Point jumps when changing timestamps
          2011-08-04 18:06     ` Nicolas Goaziou
        @ 2011-08-04 18:45       ` Matt Lundin
          2011-08-05  8:47         ` Nicolas Goaziou
          0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
        From: Matt Lundin @ 2011-08-04 18:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
          To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: Org Mode
        
        Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
        
        > Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> writes:
        >
        >> A bit more generous org-at-timestamp-p does have some practical
        >> advantages: it can save cursor movement when navigating an org document.
        >> For instance, when navigating the following headline, I would typically
        >> type C-n C-e to go to the end of the scheduled line. That puts the
        >> cursor at the point directly after the scheduled timestamp:
        >>
        >> * A headline
        >>   SCHEDULED: <2011-08-04 Thu>
        >>                              ^ i.e., here
        >>
        >> Having to move the cursor backwards one point would add a little bit of
        >> inconvenience.
        >
        > C-c C-s on the headline lets you modify more quickly the
        > time-stamp. I may be missing the point, but that position has no
        > particular interest.
        
        I realize that I can change a scheduled timestamp with C-s C-s, and I
        often do. But I often find myself needing to move appointments such as
        the following back and forward a day:
        
        * An appointment
          <2011-08-04 Thu +1w>
        
        If I am on the headline, the easiest way (for me) to navigate to the
        headline is C-n C-e. Then I can type S-left or S-right and quickly move
        through the dates; the cursor, moreover, will be in a convenient
        position for typing RET and adding a line of notes. This, for me, is a
        bit more convenient than typing C-n C-3 C-f or C-s <, etc.
        
        >> I believe the current behavior of org-at-timestamp-p is consistent with
        >> that of the *-at-point functions.
        >
        > Agreed. But, on the other hand, it isn't consistent with any similar Org
        > function. Try `org-footnote-at-reference-p' just after a footnote
        > reference or `org-context' just after a link. In both cases, point will
        > be considered outside of the element.
        
        True. (Thanks for pointing out org-context! I wasn't aware of that
        function.) From a UI perspective, however, I would suggest that a bit
        looser behavior adds some convenience to org-mode. For instance C-c C-o
        will currently open a link if the cursor is at the point before or after
        it.
        
          [[http://www.google.com]]
         ^ here                    ^ here
        
        Best,
        Matt
        
        ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

      • • * Re: Point jumps when changing timestamps
            2011-08-04 18:45       ` Matt Lundin
          @ 2011-08-05  8:47         ` Nicolas Goaziou
            2011-08-05 14:08           ` Matt Lundin
            2011-08-15  8:11           ` Bastien
            0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
          From: Nicolas Goaziou @ 2011-08-05  8:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
            To: Matt Lundin; +Cc: Org Mode
          
          Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> writes:
          
          > I realize that I can change a scheduled timestamp with C-s C-s, and I
          > often do. But I often find myself needing to move appointments such as
          > the following back and forward a day:
          >
          > * An appointment
          >   <2011-08-04 Thu +1w>
          >
          > If I am on the headline, the easiest way (for me) to navigate to the
          > headline is C-n C-e. Then I can type S-left or S-right and quickly move
          > through the dates; the cursor, moreover, will be in a convenient
          > position for typing RET and adding a line of notes. This, for me, is a
          > bit more convenient than typing C-n C-3 C-f or C-s <, etc.
          
          Ok, it may be convenient in that specific case, but it still looks like
          a hack to me. Another solution would be to implement a function to
          navigate between time-stamps, similar to `org-next-link'. One can even
          generalize this function to move to the next non-structural element
          (time-stamp, link, footnote, latex snippet, emphasized text)[1].
          
          > From a UI perspective, however, I would suggest that a bit looser
          > behavior adds some convenience to org-mode. For instance C-c C-o will
          > currently open a link if the cursor is at the point before or after
          > it.
          >
          >   [[http://www.google.com]]
          >  ^ here                    ^ here
          
          This is different. `org-open-at-point' is an end-user function, whereas
          `org-at-timestamp-p' isn't. I don't think predicates should be sloppy:
          I don't want to implement `org-really-at-timestamp-p'.
          
          Furthermore, being loose isn't always convenient. In the following
          example, where will I go if I use C-c C-o on the space between the two
          links?
          
              [[http://www.google.com][Google]] [[http://www.bing.com][Bing]]
          
          I'd suggest to fix `org-at-timestamp-p', and allow, if it must be,
          sloppiness in `org-shiftleft' and friends.
          
              
          Regards,
          
          
          Footnotes:
          
          [1] This and a convenient paragraph motion command could be the roots
          of an interesting Org parser.
          
          
          -- 
          Nicolas Goaziou
          
          ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

        • • * Re: Point jumps when changing timestamps
              2011-08-05  8:47         ` Nicolas Goaziou
            @ 2011-08-05 14:08           ` Matt Lundin
              2011-08-15  8:22             ` Bastien
              2011-08-15  8:11           ` Bastien
              1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread
            From: Matt Lundin @ 2011-08-05 14:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
              To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: Org Mode
            
            Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
            
            > Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> writes:
            >>
            >> If I am on the headline, the easiest way (for me) to navigate to the
            >> headline is C-n C-e. Then I can type S-left or S-right and quickly move
            >> through the dates; the cursor, moreover, will be in a convenient
            >> position for typing RET and adding a line of notes. This, for me, is a
            >> bit more convenient than typing C-n C-3 C-f or C-s <, etc.
            >
            > Ok, it may be convenient in that specific case, but it still looks like
            > a hack to me. Another solution would be to implement a function to
            > navigate between time-stamps, similar to `org-next-link'. One can even
            > generalize this function to move to the next non-structural element
            > (time-stamp, link, footnote, latex snippet, emphasized text)[1].
            
            That sounds like a good idea.
            
            >> From a UI perspective, however, I would suggest that a bit looser
            >> behavior adds some convenience to org-mode. For instance C-c C-o will
            >> currently open a link if the cursor is at the point before or after
            >> it.
            >>
            >>   [[http://www.google.com]]
            >>  ^ here                    ^ here
            >
            > This is different. `org-open-at-point' is an end-user function, whereas
            > `org-at-timestamp-p' isn't. I don't think predicates should be sloppy:
            > I don't want to implement `org-really-at-timestamp-p'.
            >
            > Furthermore, being loose isn't always convenient. In the following
            > example, where will I go if I use C-c C-o on the space between the two
            > links?
            >
            >     [[http://www.google.com][Google]] [[http://www.bing.com][Bing]]
            
            It seems that google wins in this instance. :)
            
            > I'd suggest to fix `org-at-timestamp-p', and allow, if it must be,
            > sloppiness in `org-shiftleft' and friends.
            
            Thanks for the detailed explanation. That sounds fine.
            
            My concern here is not with the cleanness of the code but with
            usability. For years, org users have been able to use S-left and S-right
            when the cursor immediately follows the timestamp. This has felt, to me,
            both deliberate and natural -- it has become a fundamental part of the
            way I use org-mode. If the underlying code can be made cleaner, that's
            fine, so long as the usability remains.
            
            But it is also very likely that I am the only person who changes
            timestamps in this way. Are there any others?
            
            Best,
            Matt
            
            ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

          • • * Re: Point jumps when changing timestamps
                2011-08-05 14:08           ` Matt Lundin
              @ 2011-08-15  8:22             ` Bastien
                0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
              From: Bastien @ 2011-08-15  8:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
                To: Matt Lundin; +Cc: Org Mode, Nicolas Goaziou
              
              Hi Matt,
              
              Matt Lundin <mdl@imapmail.org> writes:
              
              >> Ok, it may be convenient in that specific case, but it still looks like
              >> a hack to me. Another solution would be to implement a function to
              >> navigate between time-stamps, similar to `org-next-link'. One can even
              >> generalize this function to move to the next non-structural element
              >> (time-stamp, link, footnote, latex snippet, emphasized text)[1].
              >
              > That sounds like a good idea.
              
              +1
              
              >> Furthermore, being loose isn't always convenient. In the following
              >> example, where will I go if I use C-c C-o on the space between the two
              >> links?
              >>
              >>     [[http://www.google.com][Google]] [[http://www.bing.com][Bing]]
              >
              > It seems that google wins in this instance. :)
              
              Indeed :)
              
              > My concern here is not with the cleanness of the code but with
              > usability. For years, org users have been able to use S-left and S-right
              > when the cursor immediately follows the timestamp. This has felt, to me,
              > both deliberate and natural -- it has become a fundamental part of the
              > way I use org-mode. If the underlying code can be made cleaner, that's
              > fine, so long as the usability remains.
              
              I also think the way it has worked so far is natural.
              
              > But it is also very likely that I am the only person who changes
              > timestamps in this way. Are there any others?
              
              Yes, me!
              
              -- 
               Bastien
              
              ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

          • * Re: Point jumps when changing timestamps
              2011-08-05  8:47         ` Nicolas Goaziou
              2011-08-05 14:08           ` Matt Lundin
            @ 2011-08-15  8:11           ` Bastien
              1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
            From: Bastien @ 2011-08-15  8:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
              To: Nicolas Goaziou; +Cc: Matt Lundin, Org Mode
            
            Hi Nicolas and Matt,
            
            Nicolas Goaziou <n.goaziou@gmail.com> writes:
            
            > I'd suggest to fix `org-at-timestamp-p', and allow, if it must be,
            > sloppiness in `org-shiftleft' and friends.
            
            I've just pushed a fix to `org-at-timestamp-p' so that `org-ts-what'
            considers your "on the bracket" when point is right after it.
            
            This fixes Matt's initial issue.
            
            Thanks,
            
            -- 
             Bastien
            
            ^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2011-08-15  8:21 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2011-08-03 14:18 Point jumps when changing timestamps Matt Lundin
2011-08-04 16:01 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2011-08-04 16:39   ` Matt Lundin
2011-08-04 18:06     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2011-08-04 18:45       ` Matt Lundin
2011-08-05  8:47         ` Nicolas Goaziou
2011-08-05 14:08           ` Matt Lundin
2011-08-15  8:22             ` Bastien
2011-08-15  8:11           ` Bastien

Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).