From: Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us>
To: rick@rickster.com
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [patch][ox-html] Support for level based containers
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 20:41:07 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87a9cns3ak.fsf@gmx.us> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <730c32eb8242f98f62e0a79d4c188d34@mail.rickster.com> (Rick Frankel's message of "Tue, 18 Mar 2014 11:05:25 -0400")
Rick,
Rick Frankel <rick@rickster.com> writes:
> On 2014-03-17 23:31, Rasmus wrote:
>> It's a variable that you can set in your project or in your Org file
>> or in your init file. I don't see why div × 3 is better than section
>> article div or something else conditional on two variables being
>> explicitly set to get fancy HTML5. . . In any case, I don't have
>> strong—if any—preferences on this.
>
> Because using these tags is assigning semantic meaning which may or
> may not be valid for the current document. Based on the spec, your use
> of =section= seems ok (but could also be used for the other levels),
> but your use of =article= is probably wrong in most cases. From
> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/sections.html#the-article-element:
>
> The article element represents a complete, or self-contained,
> composition in a document, page, application, or site and that is,
> in principle, independently distributable or reusable, e.g. in
> syndication. This could be a forum post, a magazine or newspaper
> article, a blog entry, a user-submitted comment, an interactive
> widget or gadget, or any other independent item of content.
OK. Thanks for your through clarification.
> As to the =section= element, the from the above doc:
>
> The section element represents a generic section of a document or
> application. A section, in this context, is a thematic grouping of
> content. The theme of each section should be identified, typically
> by including a heading (h1-h6 element) as a child of the section
> element.
This happens with the patch (as is does with divs ATM).
> and
>
> A general rule is that the section element is appropriate only if
> the element's contents would be listed explicitly in the
> document's outline.
>
> So, using this definition, in html5, the wrappers should be =sections=
> to the same level as the toc heading level specified for the document,
> and =divs= after.[1]
So you want it to be section until h:N? That should be easy.
>> org-html-text-markup-alist is nice. What do you want to see in
>> addition to the current structure (in patch v2)?
>>
>> Somehow I never saw the original thread, only the email cc'ing me
>> directly. I went to gmane to find the patch, and obviously grabbed the
>> wrong one.
>>
>> Could you please send me the (new) patch so that i can review it?
>>
>> Here's the Gmane link. I believe it's different than what you
>> reviewed before, but perhaps I'm wrong. . .
>
> No, i got the wrong patch from gmane. This one looks better modulo:
>
> 1. The default should stay the same as it is now -- the string "div"
As you prefer.
> 2. Minor typo, but "backward comparability" should be "backwards
> compatibility".
Thanks.
> But, after reviewing the spec (see above vis. =section= and
> =article=), i would submit that a better patch would be to
> implement [1] above -- remove the defcustom (i only added to support
> using a different default wrapper element in html5), and use =section=
> and =div= based on toc level when html5-fancy is true. As far as i can
> tell from the spec, =article= would almost never be correct for the
> average org doc. Here's a relevant quote from the spec:
OK. That certainly makes it easier. But should it not then be a cons
or an alist specifying which container to use when the headline level
is above or below h:N and deepening on whether html5-fancy is used?
> Authors are encouraged to use the article element instead of the
> section element when it would make sense to syndicate the contents
> of the element.
So blogs, technical docs and similar? I can see people using Org such
things? Or do W3-people thinkg of something different when they say
it is "syndicatable"
> I think the best way to implement this would be letting the user
> specify it with the =HTML_CONTAINER= property already implemented. As
> this seems very much in keeping with the spec, i will implement this
> change when i have some time in the next couple of weeks if i don't
> hear any strong arguments against.
I can change my patch to this behavior if you want. Though I think
it's pretty strong to hardcode values, as one would might have reasons
to change it in say an ox-publish project.
> As an aside, the complex semantics of the new html5 tags is why we
> have been slow in implementing them in ox-html. =div= is by
> definition a non-semantic tag meant to be used for grouping and
> styling, but the new tags have very specific meanings associated with
> them and their mis-use is worse than their non-use.
Good point.
Thanks again Rick.
—Rasmus
--
Governments should be afraid of their people
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-03-18 19:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 11+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-03-15 23:18 [patch][ox-html] Support for level based containers Rasmus
2014-03-16 13:10 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2014-03-17 0:30 ` Rasmus
2014-03-17 2:15 ` Bastien
2014-03-17 17:31 ` Rick Frankel
2014-03-17 22:26 ` Rasmus
2014-03-18 0:33 ` Rick Frankel
2014-03-18 3:31 ` Rasmus
2014-03-18 15:05 ` Rick Frankel
2014-03-18 19:41 ` Rasmus [this message]
2014-03-19 14:24 ` Rick Frankel
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