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From: Timothy <tecosaur@gmail.com>
To: Tom Gillespie <tgbugs@gmail.com>
Cc: Org Mode List <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Accept more :tangle-mode specification forms
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 14:59:35 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87a6jtjj20.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CA+G3_PODiQjsTasVcHw=sbsY31qgg834nCPAzvJ0_QmF1G-vxA@mail.gmail.com>

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2738 bytes --]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for giving me your thoughts on this. I have a few thoughts in response :)

> I strongly oppose this patch. It adds far too much complexity to the
> org grammar. Representation of numbers is an extremely nasty part of
> nearly every language, and I suggest that org steer well clear of
> trying to formalize this.

I’m not quite sure I see your point here, as I don’t see how this affects the
grammar of Org at all. The :attribute value syntax is unaffected, this just
changes how a particular :attribute’s value is interpreted. Attribute specific
interpretation is normal, with “:file ~/hello” you expect `~' to be interpreted as
`$HOME', but were I to give “:session ~/hello” I would not expect `~' to be
expanded etc.

Similarly, with regard to the representation of numbers, I’m not sure that
applies here, as the value is still a string not a number, it’s just
interpreted. Arguably, we’re not even representing numbers here but representing
file permissions which are currently abstracted by a numerical representation.

> With an eye to future portability I suggest that no special cases be given to
> [snipped for later] tangle mode without very careful consideration.

Mmmm, we defiantly want to think about what options we allow for, but I don’t
think that precludes us from accepting more than one common permissions

> [the snip]: something as important for security as tangle mode

Thank you for considering potential security implications, this is something
that I didn’t consider when writing the patch, but if we allow for a confusing
format that could deceive people into tangling files in modes they didn’t
realise they were tangling to.

I think there are two relevant points here
⁃ If we only allow very widely-understood, standard representations, I think the
  risk of people misunderstanding a :tangle-mode value is acceptably low
⁃ If you consider things this way, since arbitrary lisp closures are currently
  permitted, one can already trivially create a much more misleading
  :tangle-mode value with the current code.

> Emacs lisp closures have clear semantics in Org and the number syntax is clear

See my earlier comments on the semantics being unaffected, and this not being a
number syntax.

> If users are concerned about the verbosity of (identity #o0600) they could go
> with the sorter (or #o0600).

Perhaps, but I personally find it easier to interpret “rwxr-xr–” for example
than “(or #o754)”, and I feel quite confident in guessing that
a. I’m not alone
b. Nobody that understands “#o754” will have difficult understanding “rwxr-xr–”

All the best,

  reply	other threads:[~2021-10-01  7:34 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 33+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-09-30 18:14 Timothy
2021-10-01  1:24 ` Tom Gillespie
2021-10-01  6:59   ` Timothy [this message]
2021-10-01  8:00     ` Stefan Nobis
2021-10-01 10:05       ` Eric S Fraga
2021-10-01 10:29         ` tomas
2021-10-01 18:04           ` Tom Gillespie
2021-10-01 18:14             ` Timothy
2021-10-01  8:39   ` Christian Moe
2021-10-05 14:45 ` Timothy
2021-10-05 15:54   ` unknown@email.com
2021-10-05 16:13     ` Timothy
2021-10-05 16:06   ` tomas
2021-10-06 11:59   ` Max Nikulin
2021-11-18 10:20   ` Timothy
2021-11-18 17:22     ` Timothy
2021-11-18 23:33       ` Tom Gillespie
2021-11-19 16:31       ` Tim Cross
2021-11-19 18:10         ` tomas
2021-11-20  4:31         ` Greg Minshall
2021-11-20  8:08         ` Timothy
2021-11-20 12:25           ` tomas
2021-11-20 14:50             ` Timothy
2021-11-20 16:09               ` tomas
2021-11-20 21:32               ` Tim Cross
2021-11-21  4:08               ` Greg Minshall
2021-11-21  4:27                 ` Timothy
2021-11-21  5:11                   ` Greg Minshall
2021-11-20 19:49           ` Tim Cross
2021-11-21  4:02             ` Timothy
2021-11-21 13:51               ` Tim Cross
2021-11-21 14:33                 ` Timothy
2021-11-29 18:57                   ` Timothy

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