From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id UBoxAPK5VmHp0gAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 09:34:10 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id CKhyN/G5VmGUUQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 07:34:09 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C8893CCE6 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2021 09:34:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:46558 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWD3Y-0001B2-Md for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:34:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40506) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWD31-00019E-Mf for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:33:35 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-x42b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b]:40693) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWD30-0005g2-4O for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 03:33:35 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id y8so7176675pfa.7 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 00:33:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:references:user-agent:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=Ea3CXrXlodqpocdYUCT46hTnKiPzXxUZhaI1t9Azm+M=; b=Nmn4FXpIailGJkdqDZUBt2nCDMmn1txMG0vYZsX1/DBWuaDdCztZZHFCoLH4C02Vgr q2sgrTdQqboemiqBhp0eDj9GTpRniR5nfvkm03fU3zWLccsbjotK6esxzw2nk9c6ToYq vwxi+MgCXhC9qNPPFL5mYA+jxVbzBSE1OhHh/GTFt/gT9/wuPq0r/LGiXZQ7kbEgtmBH WPpXuJjSH8QRE01Xk4XPAfVMqHgaAD3vlD3caVA9vi1YDPmbYEipkGZBzBA4baFrzBfi xhXaARCtHnWi5KSPYWDT3bsUqTguSZxTPyXaefcXgAGPnhJHvhjefBw42adb4QJYe5Mt ZTcA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:references:user-agent :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=Ea3CXrXlodqpocdYUCT46hTnKiPzXxUZhaI1t9Azm+M=; b=p7ab9WAuJedDrmRoyyxTARIkubjUukN4EbZpCsQ0g1vnnsBkRhahO14wToJCI2I6dm FdYv0VCdZJ/AHmNQjGgpkQW4WXBcjK3i0v0h53OqucUFoxxBgoqDHfpZEoBD6PkK1bXr kDnvQxwzpRrHhAezmqPkDRTMc4w/iXFryMxcmlBcMK1DhyNEgy9dEeX8ShIQ64GSpIXV +gIGRkCBlBmIaIT/12OtOb8U4sWiRCnE00B2FKk6nrQD92rcIp+9oScwhujRV/C1zNxF yM0UU9bJNb4qrF46cN5pZ692FfiWdi9NtmN0ntaxBEExid+jrU0sotSiAxs53KQywzBo rC1w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530RrC+UEP7dyLRabTx58F5KuIs0tEuDYW6cST+YeUQARnbldkff JSe4Heuh8rJile3664aJi5s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxkzrvZ/e5wNtA/y2PxS3gvAJdwqOd9YV2bl/hFxq6t7w/JH8UX88+POMXtCJ6Y8/CsXLs0MA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:9a19:: with SMTP id o25mr8664701pge.61.1633073611805; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 00:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (61-245-128-160.3df580.per.nbn.aussiebb.net. [61.245.128.160]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id mp24sm7072798pjb.41.2021.10.01.00.33.30 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 01 Oct 2021 00:33:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Timothy To: Tom Gillespie Subject: Re: [PATCH] Accept more :tangle-mode specification forms Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 14:59:35 +0800 References: <875yuh9b3t.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.6.5; emacs 28.0.50 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87a6jtjj20.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=-=-=" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::42b; envelope-from=tecosaur@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x42b.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Org Mode List Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1633073649; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Ea3CXrXlodqpocdYUCT46hTnKiPzXxUZhaI1t9Azm+M=; b=Ndlxvzmh9U108pOIgvWa8sPn72VUNYeEy3kPCeyx7y1gJO7kK4jSWKzIrz0KOMUkN5Nxjm Z6bKqDWXFCkbOaA12zAOu9s4oTQJ10dPJob8JyZ8//PszDKPOni3FRAuyBCxmgTkIGfFUg 6IXZUn6NNTW4o5fXsMKHrpnQ/PrxJEh3JycrxtIyscTgFLNHdfsk3xR5ditJOT63SKqNB9 pp6fcB6kDhYTAjp2JlanL0/pc+D8ZlsSHQis49nBoZ5wl57YWVAjYLbkSYr98FaEcQLatn mM0IrMzJtIR4QoaB8GoOLdsftjLy23lknqNsHFafAQ2HNl9fMVymvUayO5CaVg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1633073649; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=gNsDw6w3uLs8EzfqEAenvOU/6Zs/MVcUIUBkfSSnWlA6kDw8mMUpsz9In4aiW2klZCK8XU IN2j/XDuO6A6fGBdqH3SATsuy5puX7zqi24Fzps0y7TB8wihHDt5tYIPJPPave5sdDv3fZ gJHslt5Y6nOMZ6sy9Jl+Dhzt56pC9bp9S+rEj9MalSxw/YfK09ybtiwMJpeabd5YBiKYbB EDPJTJpY9HKgMcq8YCcvhlzrcK/W1GaAyKD8FtFsKp4lI4Iw1D4OMxdZ07qlOB1l9Aip8F ei5xKiZ0IrD48u4UYt2tT0I7S6RatIsPW8WhBfzT7t/g7iOfcFcBLNQ0hU3Ibw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Nmn4FXpI; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.60 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=Nmn4FXpI; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 9C8893CCE6 X-Spam-Score: -0.60 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: v5vVACnB74P5 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tom, Thanks for giving me your thoughts on this. I have a few thoughts in respon= se :) > I strongly oppose this patch. It adds far too much complexity to the > org grammar. Representation of numbers is an extremely nasty part of > nearly every language, and I suggest that org steer well clear of > trying to formalize this. I=E2=80=99m not quite sure I see your point here, as I don=E2=80=99t see ho= w this affects the grammar of Org at all. The :attribute value syntax is unaffected, this just changes how a particular :attribute=E2=80=99s value is interpreted. Attribu= te specific interpretation is normal, with =E2=80=9C:file ~/hello=E2=80=9D you expect `= ~' to be interpreted as `$HOME', but were I to give =E2=80=9C:session ~/hello=E2=80=9D I would not = expect `~' to be expanded etc. Similarly, with regard to the representation of numbers, I=E2=80=99m not su= re that applies here, as the value is still a string not a number, it=E2=80=99s just interpreted. Arguably, we=E2=80=99re not even representing numbers here but= representing file permissions which are currently abstracted by a numerical representati= on. > With an eye to future portability I suggest that no special cases be give= n to > [snipped for later] tangle mode without very careful consideration. Mmmm, we defiantly want to think about what options we allow for, but I don= =E2=80=99t think that precludes us from accepting more than one common permissions representations. > [the snip]: something as important for security as tangle mode Thank you for considering potential security implications, this is something that I didn=E2=80=99t consider when writing the patch, but if we allow for = a confusing format that could deceive people into tangling files in modes they didn=E2= =80=99t realise they were tangling to. I think there are two relevant points here =E2=81=83 If we only allow very widely-understood, standard representations= , I think the risk of people misunderstanding a :tangle-mode value is acceptably low =E2=81=83 If you consider things this way, since arbitrary lisp closures ar= e currently permitted, one can already trivially create a much more misleading :tangle-mode value with the current code. > Emacs lisp closures have clear semantics in Org and the number syntax is = clear See my earlier comments on the semantics being unaffected, and this not bei= ng a number syntax. > If users are concerned about the verbosity of (identity #o0600) they coul= d go > with the sorter (or #o0600). Perhaps, but I personally find it easier to interpret =E2=80=9Crwxr-xr=E2= =80=93=E2=80=9D for example than =E2=80=9C(or #o754)=E2=80=9D, and I feel quite confident in guessing t= hat a. I=E2=80=99m not alone b. Nobody that understands =E2=80=9C#o754=E2=80=9D will have difficult unde= rstanding =E2=80=9Crwxr-xr=E2=80=93=E2=80=9D All the best, Timothy --=-=-=--