* usage, ideas, suggestions, actually a braindumnp
@ 2006-04-27 9:53 nielsgiesen
2006-04-27 10:30 ` Carsten Dominik
2006-05-19 12:20 ` Carsten Dominik
0 siblings, 2 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: nielsgiesen @ 2006-04-27 9:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
What's below is a mixture of a description of my org-usage and ideas
on further elaboration of org-mode, which have partly come up during
this writing. Pardon me if it's kind of an unorded brainstorm (it is
evident from this that I am one of the person really in need of
org-mode).
* Main story
Just discovered org-mode about a week ago (on #emacs). Since then I
have been a proud user. Am using it for professional as well as
personal use. For professional use, I am using it to make a kind of
html-template which I will tweak for automatic generation of
subsequent html in the future. Sure things will come up in that
respect. Further, I am trying to use it as a bug/wanted
feature-tracking system. As the only developer is me, and my input
mostly comes from one source only, this is feasible (I just let no one
else touch my list). Some things have come up because of this use. I
use a table for listing the bugs and features (to export to csv), and
descriptions are put in headlines below that, with possible
subheadlines. One thing I needed was a way to link the fields and the
headlines, based on some unique identifier, and possibly in an
automatic way. The cleanest way I have come up with so far is using
the radio link. That way I just put a bug number in the table
automatically targeting the description . That way I can export it to
csv -> xls (in oocalc), so the person I communicate with sees only the
bug number itself, and not also the brackets, that are exported as-is
to csv. On this, see infra. For the generation of a bug number link
for in the headlines I have created the following small function, and
set it to a keyboard shortcut:
(defcustom org-bug-number 0
"number of current bug"
:type 'number)
(defun org-insert-bug-number (&optional skip-to)
"Increment the org-bug-number with 1 and insert it at point as an internal link.
With numerical prefix argument, insert the prefix number at point as
an internal link. If this number is greater than the current value of
org-bug-number, update org-bug-number to this value."
(interactive "p")
(insert-string "<<<"
(cond ((> skip-to org-bug-number) (setq org-bug-number skip-to))
((eq skip-to 1) (setq org-bug-number (1+ org-bug-number)))
(t skip-to)) ">>>")
(org-ctrl-c-ctrl-c))
...I might revise this with the use of an alist or something, so you
can have different bug numbers associated with different projects,
based on which .org file you visit.
I am thinking of a good way of how to integrate this, and other
typical bug-track-sheet stuff (such as status: TODO/DONE...) with the
headlines. Automatic generation of a headline on creation of a new
bug-row is not a good option, I believe, since some things are so
self-evident from the small description given in the table that giving
the bug a seperate headline would just be an exercise in
repetition. However, when a good and unique link between table row and
headline could be established, an update of the one based on the other
might be convenient. Perhaps this whole approach is flawed, because it
is based on the table concept for representing bugs (my bosses just
said like: ,,Kan je die bugs niet gewoon ff in een Excel-sheetje
stoppen?''--trans: ``can't you just put these bugs in an Excel
sheet?''), so that I just began drawing a table. Maybe some table
export function to the view generated by C-c C-r would be a better
idea. But then, how do you know which words will have to appear in
which field? This would require setting properties to (sequences of),
which calls for a different syntax. More thinking and code-studying
necessary...
I think using only TODO and DONE is a good approach, as too much time
is easily wasted figuring out for yourself what the precise
qualification should be.
* Some other things that have come up during usage:
** option for clean export view of timestamps
** option to leave timestamps out in export function
** option to leave tags out in export function.
** org-export-to-LaTeX
** make follow-mode the default as customization option;
for myself, I have just hacked the code to have follow-mode always on.
** strip links when unexportable as link
Export description, or, when lacking, only the content of the link.
When data can be retrieved back from an exported format, this would
be included /as/ /option/, as one will e.g. want to communicate to and fro
with csv tables.
** improvement of the outcome of C-h m would be welcome.
- all the self-inserting commands are not of great interest. Better
skip them, or put at least put them at the end.
- things such as "Calls `(org-cycle t)'" do not give a reference;
better say "Calls org-cycle with argument t".
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: usage, ideas, suggestions, actually a braindumnp
2006-04-27 9:53 usage, ideas, suggestions, actually a braindumnp nielsgiesen
@ 2006-04-27 10:30 ` Carsten Dominik
2006-04-27 13:02 ` nielsgiesen
2006-05-19 12:20 ` Carsten Dominik
1 sibling, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2006-04-27 10:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nielsgiesen; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
On Apr 27, 2006, at 11:53, nielsgiesen@ibbu.nl wrote:
> * Some other things that have come up during usage:
> ** option for clean export view of timestamps
Do you have an example of what you mean?
> ** option to leave timestamps out in export function
I guess, leave them out together with keywords like DEADLINE, SCHEDULED
and CLOSED, right?
> ** option to leave tags out in export function.
Useful, yes, or at least make them look better.
> ** org-export-to-LaTeX
Very unlikely that I will do this effort. Thought about it long ago
and decided it was too much work for too little gain.
> ** make follow-mode the default as customization option;
> for myself, I have just hacked the code to have follow-mode always on.
Really, you want this always on? OK, I will make it an option. How
did you hack it? You can of course use org-agenda-mode-hook to turn it
on.
(add-hook 'org-agenda-mode-hook
(lambda () (setq org-agenda-follow-mode t)
(org-agenda-set-mode-name)))
> ** strip links when unexportable as link
> Export description, or, when lacking, only the content of the link.
Example where this goes wrong?
>
> When data can be retrieved back from an exported format, this would
> be included /as/ /option/, as one will e.g. want to communicate to and
> fro
> with csv tables.
I did not understand this one, sorry.
> ** improvement of the outcome of C-h m would be welcome.
> - all the self-inserting commands are not of great interest. Better
> skip them, or put at least put them at the end.
This is fixed in Emacs 22, I don't know how to change it in Emacs 21,
apart from turning off the optimized table editor.
> - things such as "Calls `(org-cycle t)'" do not give a reference;
> better say "Calls org-cycle with argument t".
I have fixed this case, let me know if you find other occasions.
Thanks for your comments.
- Carsten
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: usage, ideas, suggestions, actually a braindumnp
2006-04-27 10:30 ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2006-04-27 13:02 ` nielsgiesen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: nielsgiesen @ 2006-04-27 13:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: emacs-orgmode
On Apr 27, 2006, at 11:53, nielsgiesen@ibbu.nl wrote:
>> * Some other things that have come up during usage:
>> ** option for clean export view of timestamps
>
>Do you have an example of what you mean?
Timestamps without the angular brackets. Actually not that important,
although it might be nice in exporting tables, as applications using
this have their own ways of playing with such data. But then you'd
have to convert them back to the org-form when importing such a
table.
>> ** option to leave timestamps out in export function
>I guess, leave them out together with keywords like DEADLINE, SCHEDULED
>and CLOSED, right?
If they are grouped, yes.
>> ** option to leave tags out in export function.
>Useful, yes, or at least make them look better.
That was the idea behind the 'clean timestamps' too, though here it is
more important.
>> ** org-export-to-LaTeX
>Very unlikely that I will do this effort. Thought about it long ago
>and decided it was too much work for too little gain.
If time and use so merits, I will look into this myself.
>> ** make follow-mode the default as customization option;
>> for myself, I have just hacked the code to have follow-mode always on.
>Really, you want this always on? OK, I will make it an option. How
>did you hack it? You can of course use org-agenda-mode-hook to turn it
>on.
For lack of time to sniffing through the code and really understand it
to come up with an elegant solution, I simply put
(org-agenda-follow-mode t) near the end of each function called by C-c
a * (where * stands for each letter that I use at the moment).
>(add-hook 'org-agenda-mode-hook
> (lambda () (setq org-agenda-follow-mode t)
> (org-agenda-set-mode-name)))
Thanks, that's way better than my ugly hacks!
>> ** strip links when unexportable as link
>> Export description, or, when lacking, only the content of the link.
>Example where this goes wrong?
It is when you put a link inside a table, which is exported to csv and
just gives the raw ascii code in the exported table. Sorry for not
being clear enough.
Another one, where the link is valid, but just the layout not as
expected, is inside a headline to html, :
* DONE eerste bandje volledig begrijpen <<<1>>> DEADLINE: <2006-04-23
Sun>
exports as
<H2><a name="sec-1">1 <SPAN CLASS="DONE">DONE</SPAN> eerste bandje volledig begrijpen <<span class="target">1</span> > <SPAN CLASS="DEADLINE">DEADLINE:</SPAN> <2006-04-23 Sun> </a></H2>
which looks like
1 DONE eerste bandje volledig begrijpen <1 > DEADLINE: <2006-04-23 Sun>
notice the whitespace between 1 and >
>> When data can be retrieved back from an exported format, this would
>> be included /as/ /option/, as one will e.g. want to communicate to and
>> fro
>> with csv tables.
>I did not understand this one, sorry.
When a link like [[link][description]] is exported as such when
the link is in a table, there are two sides to this:
1. Looks ugly in csv
2. You would want to preserve the link (so not strip it of its
brackets) when having made changes to the table in some other
application, and then imported it again.
As these two sides are irreconcilable, I have opted to make only use
of internal radio links inside a table, which do not look ugly when exported.
One more point concerning link-export:
1. when exporting a link to a location in another file to html, this
will create a link in the html page which cannot retrieve its target
(which probably is due to html itself, but I do not know html that
well). Such links be better left out.
Thank you very much for your answers, and I will be happy to continue
contributing.
Regards,
Niels.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* Re: usage, ideas, suggestions, actually a braindumnp
2006-04-27 9:53 usage, ideas, suggestions, actually a braindumnp nielsgiesen
2006-04-27 10:30 ` Carsten Dominik
@ 2006-05-19 12:20 ` Carsten Dominik
1 sibling, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Carsten Dominik @ 2006-05-19 12:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: nielsgiesen; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Hi Niels,
my comments below refer to org-mode version 4.30.
On Apr 27, 2006, at 11:53, nielsgiesen@ibbu.nl wrote:
> * Some other things that have come up during usage:
> ** option for clean export view of timestamps
Timestamps and the associated keywords have now their own CSS classes.
Also, if timestamp(s) and keywords are the only things on a line, a
line break is inserted at the end of the line. Hope this is sort-of
what you need.
> ** option to leave timestamps out in export function
(setq org-export-with-timestamps nil)
> ** option to leave tags out in export function.
(setq org-export-with-tags nil)
>
> ** make follow-mode the default as customization option;
> for myself, I have just hacked the code to have follow-mode always on.
(setq org-agenda-start-with-follow-mode t)
> ** strip links when unexportable as link
> Export description, or, when lacking, only the content of the link.
I have not worked further on this yet, unfortunately. But it is on my
list.
- Carsten
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
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2006-04-27 9:53 usage, ideas, suggestions, actually a braindumnp nielsgiesen
2006-04-27 10:30 ` Carsten Dominik
2006-04-27 13:02 ` nielsgiesen
2006-05-19 12:20 ` Carsten Dominik
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