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From: Karl Voit <devnull@Karl-Voit.at>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Org-mode syntax as a tool-independent MIME type
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 10:05:19 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <2022-10-18T09-57-39@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 87y1tdvppg.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net

Hi Timothy,

* Timothy <orgmode@tec.tecosaur.net> wrote:
> --=-=-=
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Off topic: Something's quite off here with the encoding at least at
my side (using slrn). I might be related to my setup, can't tell at
the moment.

> Hi Karl,
>> For reasons explained in my Orgdown-related articles[1] I would
>> propose to use this chance to introduce a different term for the
>> Org-mode lightweight markup language in contrast to the Org-mode
>> Elisp implementation in order to push the syntax in a tool-agnostic
>> way.
> Personally, I don=E2=80=99t see the need for a split. If anything, it seems=
>  harmful to
> me. 

In my personal experience, people often seem to mix both things in
discussions, causing unnecessary loops and conflicts. To me, a
different name is very important. From the response related to OD,
I might be in a minority here.

If you want to push the format, you'd have to use "Org-mode syntax"
or "Org-mode syntax file" or similar. People who are aware of the
difference to the implementation mostly do not use words that differ
here. So in my opinion, a slightly different term would help. It's
not a dramatic difference, it's more subtle for most people. 

> What I=E2=80=99ve taken to doing is referring to org-mode files outside=
>  Emacs simply
> as Org files, and I think this works well for a number of reasons, not leas=
> t because:
> =E2=81=83 It creates a 1-1 corespondency with the file extension, think abo=
> ut how
>   markdown is often referred to as =E2=80=9CMD=E2=80=9D due to the .md file=
>  extension.
> =E2=81=83 I also see other people naturally talking about =E2=80=9COrg file=
> s=E2=80=9D online, so this is
>   partway to being a de-facto convention

You're right. I do think that this is mostly because of lack of an

> =E2=81=83 I think it=E2=80=99s less confusing having =E2=80=9COrg=E2=80=9D =
> be related with =E2=80=9Corg-mode=E2=80=9D than
>   =E2=80=9COrgDown=E2=80=9D (or similar), and should people familiar with o=
> ne come across
>   mention of the other it should thus reduce the chance of confusion.
> What I do see the need for is the development of more resources on the form=
> at
> itself (like the org-syntax document). Done right this should be a boon to =
> both
> org-mode and Org outside Emacs.


>> I proposed the term Orgdown for the Org-mode syntax and also
>> proposed various levels in order to provide sub-sets of Org-mode
>> syntax[3] that are realistic to implement with finite effort. Using
>> those OD-levels to come up with a formal definition (EBNF?) might
>> play perfectly well with different parameters of the MIME type[4].
>> In my opinion, this would be a huge step forward for the whole
>> ecosystem that supports the same Org-mode syntax.
>> If we do not keep the MIME type independent from the GNU Emacs
>> Org-mode implementation, the overall use would be much smaller in
>> the long run.
> I find myself holding a contrary position, that we should keep the notion o=
> f an
> =E2=80=9COrg=E2=80=9D format under the org-mode project to keep everything =
> under one umbrella,
> as it were.

I don´t think that this is a contrary position. OD is supposed to be
a 100% sub-set of Org-mode syntax as implemented in Elisp.

get mail|git|SVN|photos|postings|SMS|phonecalls|RSS|CSV|XML into Org-mode:
       > get Memacs from https://github.com/novoid/Memacs <
Personal Information Management > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/pim/
Emacs-related > http://Karl-Voit.at/tags/emacs/

  parent reply	other threads:[~2022-10-18  8:10 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 37+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-09-04 14:44 Shower thought: submit an IETF RFC to register Org as a MIME type TEC
2020-09-04 16:14 ` Gustav Wikström
2020-09-05  5:30 ` stardiviner
2020-09-05  5:50   ` Bastien
2020-09-05  5:53     ` TEC
2020-09-17  7:09       ` TEC
2020-09-17  7:18         ` hj-orgmode-1
2020-09-23  7:31           ` Bastien
2020-10-01  3:40             ` TEC
2020-10-01  5:21               ` Bastien
2020-10-01  5:48                 ` TEC
2020-10-01  6:46                   ` Bastien
2020-10-01 15:39               ` Wes Hardaker
2020-10-01 15:45                 ` TEC
2020-10-06 18:03                   ` Wes Hardaker
2020-10-06 19:03                     ` TEC
2020-10-06 20:39                       ` Palak Mathur
2020-10-24 12:09                     ` Bastien
2020-10-24 12:28                       ` Palak Mathur
2020-10-24 12:50                         ` Bastien
2020-10-24 13:09                           ` Leo Vivier
2020-10-24 13:38                             ` Bastien
2020-10-24 13:49                               ` Leo Vivier
2020-10-24 15:12                                 ` Bastien
2020-10-24 15:00                           ` Palak Mathur
2020-10-24 15:40                             ` Bastien
2020-10-24 15:57                               ` Palak Mathur
2020-10-14  9:52               ` Lennart C. Karssen
2020-10-14 14:22                 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2022-10-17 20:46         ` Org-mode syntax as a tool-independent MIME type (was: Shower thought: submit an IETF RFC to register Org as a MIME type) Karl Voit
2022-10-18  1:55           ` Timothy
2022-10-18  7:22             ` Org-mode syntax as a tool-independent MIME type Bastien
2022-10-18  8:13               ` Karl Voit
2022-10-21 11:44                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-10-18  8:05             ` Karl Voit [this message]
2022-10-21 11:41           ` Org-mode syntax as a tool-independent MIME type (was: Shower thought: submit an IETF RFC to register Org as a MIME type) Ihor Radchenko
2021-03-23  3:00 ` Shower thought: submit an IETF RFC to register Org as a MIME type Timothy

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