From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id IHMaDIfw+WMJpAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 25 Feb 2023 12:27:03 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id UD7jC4fw+WOYhQEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 25 Feb 2023 12:27:03 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBA918C78 for ; Sat, 25 Feb 2023 12:27:02 +0100 (CET) Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1677324423; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=bGERLMnnTDOf2hztJkPbd7XZ4XjGNmqUNtjInmSkaNQzf5/T6fY/EJYRXLqMt+NwAx4lo7 vHIy4KlvEhYuSpJjVVAkCUKWH8K0g1FhK/g6gWDXQZUu21CE3p6beH9K4K6W5Hmq/baTmP TzdWKbEzIa9jQMIpURD8WQNdfc9jR6VJ2ID8Xc2HFI/A1+iwGn2PWon4jktFVYjN0gqr34 xeSzX/KyL0VLR5oOkBKqfF9s0v2eR7BidP1HJwb+Y2BHI8LmZdbgAT8NEq3Ge1UuGk/jlD LOgZDL0VkFpXKJRXqsNKDl6W5UGVA/3eqBY0EXQCjRbcs0xuqxCpu/lGWyATew== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1677324423; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=PtxBNqZLuC4ewown4oE/5A7Hro+nFu1Ahgs1IAm123o=; b=bnpRtKWelvag8l64yNSjCVFqdOajie9FeP1vlRNypWRr6UHk08SWnnJcB9KrCZWR7975tl CpocHrWStGVwia8Qd9+X/bentSGn102MkctF685XlKKayGNMsdG1ru/AE6jiG/qK1K3gC9 FyzF5cHxdJ3TDrjTLyJcROM5hX1i6lYC6r1MbfR1aCUNQelDO9yM4yrxtVQis0ALolMkG8 TPr2KsKV0l0rFpBPXGKyFMeGNTwv8Dr/95q6soAAU2oGm8Lqk/8/xNf3a4cue4oyX4iKNg m4LgOLC7OrydANBvrlVXRdNZ+Sol/F96A0v2/kgjH70KDA4JZtK0YRKYeDg0OA== Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pVsgz-0003Sy-Om; Sat, 25 Feb 2023 06:26:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pVsgy-0003SV-3M for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Feb 2023 06:26:16 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pVsgw-0006cN-El for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Feb 2023 06:26:15 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pVsgu-0000XB-Kv for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Feb 2023 12:26:12 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Bind `org-fold-hide-subtree' by default in Org Mode. Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2023 18:26:04 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87k00aw43b.fsf@red-bean.com> <87356xws6i.fsf@red-bean.com> <87cz5y7gbp.fsf@red-bean.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.7.1 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <87cz5y7gbp.fsf@red-bean.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 27 X-Spam_score: 2.7 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.094, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: X-Migadu-Queue-Id: CBA918C78 X-Spam-Score: -1.48 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.48 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-TUID: UQhBOpQWYkC1 On 25/02/2023 07:13, Karl Fogel wrote: > Okay, today I did some research and found that every "C-c C-" > binding is used in Org Mode except for "C-c C-g". While that one is > technically reserved for the mode's use No, there is an explicit exception for C-g, see (info "(elisp) Key Binding Conventions") in "Tips and Conventions" appendix. https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Key-Binding-Conventions.html > (It's not clear to me whether Emacs's conventions consider "C-c C-i" to > be a letter or whether they treat "C-i" as "TAB" and consider it > special; based on the previous evidence in this thread, maybe the > latter, so we shouldn't consider "C-c C-i" to be available.) It might be a problem to distinguish C-i and in text terminal. Issues with "C-c C-," raised on this list - (info "(emacs) Named ASCII Chars") https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Named-ASCII-Chars.html - (info "(elisp) Function Keys") https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Function-Keys.html A similar issue exists with C-S-letter - (info "(emacs) Modifier Keys") https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Modifier-Keys.html - (info "(elisp) Other Char Bits") https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Other-Char-Bits.html > I think what this is telling me is that Org Mode keybinding real estate > is quite valuable :-), Even C-c C-x prefix is quite busy. Other modifiers might be a rescue: C-c M-something. However perhaps M-x with fuzzy completion allowing typos (and ideally synonyms) might be a better solution. >> Are you saying that the only current default binding for C-=20 >> in Emacs is that one in tab-bar.el, and therefore we should feel=20 >> free to rebind it in Org Mode? No, [Ctrl+Tab] and [Ctrl+Shift+Tab] is widely used in other applications to switch to next/previous tabs. I would strongly prefer to keep it consistent across as much applications as possible. (There are corner cases like e.g. vim with multiple tabs running in a terminal application having several tabs as well. E.g. gnome terminal is able to pass [Ctrl+PgDn], a [Ctrl+Tab] alternative, while it has single tab, but intercepts the same shortcut when more terminal tabs are opened, so vim keys have to be used.)