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From: Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2023 11:44:54 +0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <ts76g7$29o$1@ciao.gmane.io> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Y+W6Cb8jygn7Vkmn@protected.localdomain>

On 10/02/2023 10:29, Jean Louis wrote:
> 2030-02-09 12:00 -08 @UTC -- this time CANNOT be said to be "fixed
> UTC"

I do not see any reason why obviously invalid timestamp draws so much 
attention.

Resolution may be rather concise: behavior is *undefined* since field 
values are mutually inconsistent. Perhaps implementation may prefer to 
treat it as 2030-02-09T12:00:00-0800 discarding UTC as time zone 
specifier. `org-lint' should issue a warning requesting a user action.

Could you explain what is wrong with the following (without timezone)?

2030-02-09 12:00 -0800

I consider it as an unambiguous equivalent of 2030-02-09T20:00:00Z that 
is a UTC timestamp. The format with explicit offset may be convenient 
for a person living in an area that *likely* will have -08:00 offset and 
who would like to watch some astronomical event such as lunar eclipse 
and who had a plan to connect to some telescope on the opposite side of 
the globe. Event time will not change if local time changed. Both 
variants 2030-02-09T12:00:00-0800 and 2030-02-09T20:00:00Z may be 
presented as "2030-02-09 12:00" to users. If timezone offset is changed 
both variants will converted to "13:00" or "11:00" depending on sign of 
change. So the format with offset is human friendly because it gives a 
hint concerning *probable* value of local time still remaining *precise* 
in respect to UTC.

I find the following as acceptable, but confusing to some degree:

2030-02-09 12:00 -08

just because "-08" is currently used in TZ database as time zone 
abbreviation (a string similar to "BST"), not as offset that is 
represented in wide spread formats as -0800 or -08:00. Unfortunately the 
latter causes ambiguity in the context of Org.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-02-11  4:45 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 90+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-02-04 21:38 [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ypo
2023-02-05  3:12 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-05  9:31 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05 10:44 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-05 12:12   ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05 13:01     ` ypuntot
2023-02-06 14:15       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-07 21:38       ` Jean Louis
2023-02-06 14:10     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-07 22:19       ` Jean Louis
2023-02-08 10:36         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-10  3:29           ` Jean Louis
2023-02-10 10:48             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-12  9:33               ` Jean Louis
2023-02-12 13:47                 ` tomas
2023-02-14  6:00                   ` Jean Louis
2023-02-14  9:41                     ` Heinz Tuechler
2023-02-14  9:45                       ` tomas
2023-02-14 11:42                         ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-14 15:59                           ` Jean Louis
2023-02-14 16:45                             ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-02-16 14:21                               ` Jean Louis
2023-02-14 16:57                             ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-14 10:45                       ` Jean Louis
2023-03-10 10:46                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-08 13:30                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-10  1:37                   ` Jean Louis
2023-02-11  4:44             ` Max Nikulin [this message]
2023-02-12 10:32               ` Jean Louis
2023-02-15 15:17                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-16 15:06                   ` Jean Louis
2023-03-10 10:51                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-03-15 14:42             ` Max Nikulin
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-02-12 13:27 Ypo
2023-02-04 18:59 ypuntot
2023-02-04 19:45 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05 17:04 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-07 21:46   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-17  3:55 [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Daryl Manning
2023-01-17  8:22 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-17  9:15   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17  9:45     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-18  9:15       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 11:43         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-18 12:02           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 21:16             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19  5:29               ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19  7:23                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 14:32                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19 20:09                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 23:02                       ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-19 23:51                         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20  0:24                           ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-20  3:46                             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20  6:14                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-27  6:06                                 ` Sterling Hooten
2023-01-27 11:09                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-30 11:25                                     ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-31 11:48                                       ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 12:19                                         ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-31 12:41                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
     [not found]                                             ` <CAL9aZksf8AGF=dXg0KAtLPyu1ATt1fLpvdsjN6GMCuK2KRQ56w@mail.gmail.com>
2023-01-31 13:33                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 13:22                                         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31 13:46                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 19:59                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 12:42                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:28                                                 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:30                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 20:12                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  5:46                                               ` tomas
2023-02-01  7:29                                                 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  7:52                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-02-01  8:32                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  8:46                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01  9:38                                                     ` Tim Cross
2023-02-01 10:15                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 14:53                                                         ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:36                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 10:46                                                       ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-01 14:43                                                       ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:45                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  3:05                                                           ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-02  8:59                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 14:38                                                     ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:50                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01  7:00                                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-02-01  7:41                                                 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31 18:56                                         ` Greg Minshall
2023-02-01 12:48                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 12:52                                             ` tomas
2023-02-02  4:49                                               ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-31 20:41                                         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-31 23:50                                         ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-01 13:01                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-04 22:33                                             ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-04 22:49                                               ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-05 10:38                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 11:56                                         ` Christian Moe
2023-02-01 12:20                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:41                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-02-02  8:38                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-03 11:31                                                 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-04 10:58                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-04 19:32                                                     ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05  9:14                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  3:46                                         ` Timothy
2023-02-02  9:12                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  9:12                                             ` Timothy
2023-02-02  9:20                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  9:27                                                 ` Timothy

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