From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id kA7aJ/wQ0GN8sAAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 18:10:20 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id qEDRJ/wQ0GNZWQAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 18:10:20 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 252393E28E for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 18:10:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKMnc-0002Du-6C; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 12:09:32 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKMnZ-0002DW-JO for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 12:09:29 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKMnY-0004X8-9G for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 12:09:29 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pKMnW-0004zR-1h for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 18:09:26 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: UTC or not UTC for timestamps in the past ([FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2023 00:09:19 +0700 Message-ID: References: <63c66048.630a0220.427bf.a5f6@mx.google.com> <87r0vtiks0.fsf@localhost> <63c671c0.a70a0220.61aa5.56b8@mx.google.com> <87fsc88aq9.fsf@localhost> <63c7dd3d.170a0220.6b4d6.f84f@mx.google.com> <877cxk6oeu.fsf@localhost> <63c86454.170a0220.80970.652d@mx.google.com> <63c8f5a6.170a0220.ea8cf.7f96@mx.google.com> <63c9b654.170a0220.d82d2.4254@mx.google.com> <87lelxk87a.fsf@tsdye.online> <63ca5101.630a0220.b2298.3363@mx.google.com> <63cb2d0b.630a0220.f919a.6174@mx.google.com> <63cc5983.620a0220.a7d40.68f6@mx.google.com> <63ccf071.650a0220.3a980.8179@mx.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <63ccf071.650a0220.3a980.8179@mx.google.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 16 X-Spam_score: 1.6 X-Spam_bar: + X-Spam_report: (1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.149, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.148, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1674580220; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ZQoi6rxYQyxoNlkT60n5xR7c0fKrOs4ezuSmIskm8DX/kyuaZfOZFdHyhEPApE3XjQd55Q ucXQhcxE8jxq4y+hb0BdJtNX5D1gvIpA0XMjt7tgCh71y5jEaJfQW+xuEM70Y9qeRd1B2A Q68xbXY3XMIeG1djb7eLX9jU7jlj3g6TjH02d+rlB/zUcNMaGQb06p7zHjvoprrMCUN1af kboDO41sRDhbPZ7WxN6a7vAzLmnhwhtXrK9tkxpM1OEcJW2tNnJA56CVSiPU1NaoG/9XVA rE88yckWR7gOc8ZTW5CXFrn/ITEtC/Ab/a+oM7Is92QfRdiUhig9ZXK62rpcvA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1674580220; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=f1kgpqFFUsh100Ui9bj4ovFmMIFtZOKFeZ67k+aVeVY=; b=jMVMmZM+MJXaost6GcPt20OlyGXyQuh/2VTmcNwywjwZvf7MgPNP7/L46qTqaLzdLYOfrS mH6HqXkm18nQ8dVqNe3koGX3vTvAp4KTY4kvmy7Ho9SLyHqwUc+ho6XNZOj+AE7zPr47Nn dCUh7XXNFDTViYGFr75KurBYbqtALgOMYCHJS1DSnbVkofCxE/n0YVuFy+/xA3DT0LfCyH 719Z/biIe3+kIm7Afxje1kcacIuOXQsbsm+/ipSBctABkqq+N4+dcfv9fxkkwVs07HLaCe f234mBImEockR4ApBfHzXGOWdkMAkcr5iWNBEs3tNPTf/M42abpziEtN6NCmYw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 3.62 X-Spam-Score: 3.62 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 252393E28E Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) X-TUID: avk4UT7dvbSf On 22/01/2023 14:48, Tim Cross wrote: > Timestamp for a log > record I would probably want or one of the > variants because the most common way I use those types of timestamp is > in diagnosing problems and comparing revords from various locations > where I don't care about the local time where the record was generated, > but with when it occurred in relation to other log recores. I agree that it is more convenient to have uniform offset in such case, especially in the case of multiple files having their specific timezone. During trips I do not expect so much changes of timezone to make comparison of timestamps significantly harder. > I would argue that all depends on how you use the information. My org > files are consumed by me (reading) and by scripts, elisp and other > programs. For scripts given offset should not be an issue at all. And it is up to you if you prefer to have UTC instead of local time offset in you files. > My preference is for a timestamp syntax which lets the user select the > format they want and not attempt to restrict it more than that. I do not mind to provide a user option for preferred storage format used for clock entries and similar stuff. > Provided > you can specify timestamp with and without TZ information and you > support full and abbreviated time zone names as well as UTC, I don't > think it mattters - let the user choose what suits them best. Concerning time zone abbreviations, I would discourage them as much as possible for storage format. They may be added to overlay though. Perhaps US residents would be unhappy by such decision, but there are enough examples of the same abbreviation for completely unrelated locations. Abbreviation may be useful in addition to timezone ID to disambiguate local time close to a backward time jump. Tim, in your last messages I do not see statements causing my objections any more. It seems we came to agreement: flexible enough storage format and configurable display format for overlays. Have I forgot anything?