From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id SCDfJoLgOWJOGQEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 15:43:14 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id aOB5H4LgOWIkNQEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 15:43:14 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 279A229C4E for ; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 15:43:14 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:42982 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nWfj6-0004W6-Dm for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 10:43:12 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50410) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nWfi2-0004Vx-8i for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 10:42:06 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:57616) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nWfhz-0000Oy-Nm for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 10:42:05 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nWfhw-0002Xa-7D for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2022 15:42:00 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: citations: org-cite vs org-ref 3.0 Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 21:41:52 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87wngosqvm.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.5.0 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 28 X-Spam_score: 2.8 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1647960194; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=IephsdoB8nV4hMHRWpQG+Lht1N3Q+CbELbWzUe3EnzM=; b=EcQ/kJQ8DZ/eIx3j92L+aE1/lI18rS++Iig33DPbkjsYO1oKitngy9uy55oV1ztd6dCmS4 34RhcyOwnNEb5Xz7s26Jc9o5osZNtMoyrzAhYPSft94beV6xmi+ed4dUs1u3zH1fAWNhlH ffAltDdm5JWXhQEAy+I93V4aer++w1pqsAH2JCoq0ZPpJzjE7Gz1aVHcGDQRfumyoE7nLG i1k2kKv9dVMsMl6B5MJr8nNlmnUUcxiAprvUZ74HssNOvhUasD4oHD7UhsksUWQTSPlJYZ KHbMKTfYXf1GZ7Ew0EdgC5pyjf8aKDxCoR85wqeqlBVXp/PbmTK1jrlPg8RT2g== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1647960194; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=AAohKuao7wwIiYh3mfmjxbYYrRRTFOyBatyGkge35qF+Zv4nClqA1p4TfYTF9zRSZJIkyX D0g7miEiN4Yzi98YHh3w5PdKC+ocumT+kMA4X9nwFfLN8qSiRgHfnBlgwYd4LBOziEfNFt k8pG3f03Q+IwGoYgL9KkfYPh8tOxtzZxZBi7mSxMdw7k6az0fvj9RWEHeKe5Q0P7NNh2sU edAI9ShfH/ADhfG/9oFsiB4VHQlDPSUaxbKlorJmJpKOs7SgefXHJ9ZmynFChNHr7Vh68e kB7emN2/a9d5YB/ThRMa6woF7vUDjQ6PY6kKrBExqCIURpt8er2v5ZqG/Oiibw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 2.59 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 279A229C4E X-Spam-Score: 2.59 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Pb/fU5F1vVvH On 21/03/2022 22:19, Bruce D'Arcus wrote: > On Mon, Mar 21, 2022 at 10:41 AM Max Nikulin wrote: > >> A bit of routine work will alleviate some user issues: >> - add missed styles > > The initial list of style-command mappings was pretty comprehensive, > but we left out some of the more obscure biblatex commands because > unsure if they were needed, or how best to add them (conceptually > there's a mix of different kinds of commands in biblatex, which are > hard to fit into a more general style system, for example). > > Since then: > > - people have occasionally asked to add new mappings, and Nicolas has added them > - he's also added the styles defcustoms for biblatex, so users can do > this themselves > > In short, I think we're good on this actually. John Kitchin, this thread, Sun, 20 Mar 2022 20:31:29 -0400. https://list.orgmode.org/m2sfrc149c.fsf@andrew.cmu.edu: > I don't know the equivalent of \citenum in CSL. From my point of view it may be a reason to add a new style to defaults. It is important whether a tool works out of the box. Custom variables make a document less portable unless they are specified as file-local ones. I think, the goal may be formulated as "John can not say the following any more" (at least in respect to citations leaving aside cross-references): > I simply cannot > compromise on the capability org-ref provides me, or wait for an > alternative complete solution in org-mode. On the other hand I do not consider the following argument as a strong one > I do not like the abstraction away from LaTeX cite commands in org-cite. > This is an example of a compromise between LaTeX and CSL. despite I believe that convenience and habits are important. Mapping of styles to commands is just a piece of knowledge. I have no particular opinion if enough efforts should be invested from both sides to allow mixing on both citation syntax constructs (org-cite and org-ref) in the same document. Bruce, you made a lot for support of CSL in org-cite, so I will stressed another direction of feature comparison since Bib(La)TeX users should feel themselves first-class citizens. The choice between org-ref and org-cite, when the former can do its job, should be matter of taste and personal preferences unrelated to technical limitations.