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From: Max Nikulin <manikulin@gmail.com>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: text after sub headings?
Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2021 20:15:36 +0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <sq75hq$16ci$1@ciao.gmane.io> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87fsqhhi5f.fsf@posteo.net>

On 25/12/2021 03:17, Juan Manuel Macías wrote:
> Max Nikulin writes:
> 
>> It may have larger margins, smaller font, distinct font face,
>> another background color, box around or just rule at some side, so
>> readers have clear notion where it ends and main material continues.
> 
> This is complex layout, something that DTP programs (InDesign, Quark,
> Scribus) do very well as they work on the concept of multiple threads of
> connected text boxes.

It is not necessary complex layout. It is a decoration similar to 
pictures in fiction books. Unlike figures such additions are not 
strictly important to understand material. In printed form it is like 
figures however. Insets are appropriate in particular places, but 
tolerate some shift due to paging.

This particular examples has internal structure:
http://algorithmics.lsi.upc.edu/docs/Dasgupta-Papadimitriou-Vazirani.pdf#page=135

Book reader on small phone screen might require a tap to show all 
additional material. On wide screen in may appear on margins and visible 
by default. In Org it migh remain collapsed when heading is expanded 
while text around is visible.

I have not worked with complex documents in DTP programs. In my opinion, 
LaTeX deals much better with figures (plots, drawings) in scientific 
papers than office software. When users complains that LaTeX puts at 
their figures and table at the end of the document it usually means that 
they copy-pasted markup explicitly forbidding most of usual places for 
floats (e.g. page completely filled with figures).

It is possible to create insets in Org Mode document, but it is not 
native support.

In a bit broader sense insets do not violates tree structure

- Branch: Section Heading
   - Leaf: section text
   - Branch: Inset section Heading
     - Leaf: inset section text
     - Branch: Inset Subsection Heading 1
       - Leaf: Inset subsection 1 text
     - Branch: Inset Subsection Heading 2
       - Leaf: Inset subsection 2 text
   - Leaf: section text continues

Another example when it is convenient to have text itermixed with 
headings is notes. Tree structure is too rigid, particular note may be 
appropriate to several topics. Important point that sometimes it is 
better to have particular order within some topic, if ordering is not 
required than all links may appear before subheadings. So not text is 
put to one topic, other ones contains links. Ideally it should appear like

* Topic 2
   some general notes
*** Note 2.1...
*** Note 2.2...
   [[#note_from_other_topic1]]
   contains some interesting details
*** Note 2.4...
   [[#note_from_other_topic2]]
   contains other interesting details
*** Note 2.6...

It would be nice to have links visually distinct from headings and there 
is no real reason to collapse link if description text is just a couple 
of line.

I do not ask to change anything. I admit that nobody has bright idea how 
to properly implement it. I am just against statements that Org is ideal 
in respect to sectioning and covers all use cases. My opinion that it is 
limitation, there are some workarounds and trade-offs for each 
particular case. Anyway there is no unambiguously better tool.



  reply	other threads:[~2021-12-25 13:17 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 12+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-12-23 16:11 Robert Nikander
2021-12-23 16:54 ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-23 20:27 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-24 16:51   ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-24 20:17     ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-25 13:15       ` Max Nikulin [this message]
2021-12-26  5:23         ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-26  9:17         ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-23 23:12 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-23 21:21 Robert Nikander
2021-12-23 21:47 ` John Kitchin
2021-12-23 22:10 ` Juan Manuel Macías

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