From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id eBZMB7Y6GWGlcAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 18:03:02 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id 6AntArY6GWFZdgAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 16:03:02 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 86AC63B67 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 18:02:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:46396 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mFIbA-0006Lf-Ff for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 12:02:56 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47474) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mFIYP-0005S3-Kh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 12:00:05 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:35038) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mFIYM-0001Wo-TZ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 12:00:05 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mFIYI-0005Ke-IR for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Aug 2021 17:59:58 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Maxim Nikulin Subject: Re: Smart quotes for Greek (questions for a possible patch) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2021 22:59:49 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87r1ew5an0.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 In-Reply-To: <87r1ew5an0.fsf@posteo.net> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 7 X-Spam_score: 0.7 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.248, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-2.147, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1629043377; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=7fkygtlrTKlDdtK/5Bu6a5mQK8dH4Mxnidb1SSdwWiA=; b=PISAPbQs5IMe2iwWtKdL6aCb1ttbuyU3sRU4NEVgkdhdBAxHZ7UqGk6ZVz60iPctWjtIrX aHobAEMHbd65yVh5R+Kvq1qJoNQVgI6sUgfOBBY5BGJYEDAlVxVojV0nmGlSS19hVqMir7 shPjaU9cadtuN5KPr6JQ6Geks5b+TkQGOgcX43jPzjXvvq+J5PHiHYkN3DRxClshkiwVDm 0cFdZv698Jyts/RFQLcPzvthEe3iPXqzqijJp7Ar4mnd3pbU4UQAhPOL1STcjnBMgtdeWt /woda26cTIHy1YHNT18DGqi/Bohyc/e0jjnR22mkHSpvGaBltC0kUylHRmc0JA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1629043377; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=HvPUNvUNIs6cMwTMnYwodicP5C7whz5cIfhY/3mq9juhlJchV2/Kl6P1ZWRwIxKr1s9/cC iBbvfVHd2ZYhP9ELiUkrlcfEfn+r0leCbb31EgT9lfJ8UyLubskmLiBwt9X3dT3Ot3dw0d 8f+QYfKulobCNZGSlh8nh+Eq30JZ7zIaT/xtQYoBiS2Sfdui4nA9u+qz98kvjvYQyacx6j 05m1Kt7IcM8hNr3UEG6MuViq3KaF0kEFxKotXX9/5bAwW/+hFgOMLcKWzVoEJ9r9zcOISK 9BwOgO+TPfuP/kZwC6v49+s9BRlGVFmcw6sPr600wAXmY96G166WiVU9CR+ceg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.81 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 86AC63B67 X-Spam-Score: -1.81 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: lbSvaDePc4lo On 14/08/2021 22:06, Juan Manuel Macías wrote: > > I would like to submit a patch to add smart quotes for Greek in > `org-export-smart-quotes-alist', but I have a couple of questions. > > First of all, I am not a native speaker of Greek Disclaimer: I am not a Greek speaker at all. > Yannis Haralambous explains in "From Unicode to > Typography, a Case Study: the Greek Script" (1999, p. 20: > http://web.archive.org/web/20120229131933/http://omega.enstb.org/yannis/pdf/boston99.pdf). > > Fortunately these quotes are provided by the Unicode standard (*U+201F* > and U+201D, the latter being the same closing double quotes as in > English); There is no Greek page for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark As to English page, notice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Summary_table https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Greek sections. It cites http://publications.europa.eu/code/el/el-4100107el.htm that uses “ U+0201C (“, &lquo;, or &lquot;) and ” U+0201D (”, &rquo;, or &rquot;) as inner quotes. If it is acceptable to use this pair, LaTeX commands likely may be \textquotedblleft and \textquotedblright (or simply `` and ''). I have not noticed anything more appropriate in "The Comprehensive LATEX Symbol List". Even https://www.ctan.org/pkg/babel-greek does not suggest proper way for inner quotes. Even if precise variant is uncertain, maybe any reasonable choice is better than currently used defaults. Anyway it may be corrected later. > #+begin_src emacs-lisp > (secondary-opening :utf-8 "‟" :html "‟;" :latex "??" :texinfo "??") > #+end_src It seems, there is no named entity for U+0201F https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/named-characters.html#named-character-references For some unclear reason (there is a badge requesting references), Russian page https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Кавычки mentions - «…» as usually used outer, - ‹…› as usually used inner, - “…” as alternative outer, - ‘…’ as alternative inner quotes. Perhaps, it is just a mistake.