From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 8P63A7If72DNoAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:32:34 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id KDQzObEf72CiNQAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 17:32:33 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C42821A31 for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:32:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37228 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m3ikK-0002JP-IV for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 13:32:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52876) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m3iiK-0000na-Ri for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 13:30:28 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:34878) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m3iiI-0000oS-G0 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 13:30:28 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1m3iiE-000505-5j for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:30:22 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Maxim Nikulin Subject: Re: org-mode export to (latex) PDF Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 00:30:15 +0700 Message-ID: References: <5A0DCCA5-7B49-46CC-BD49-B5F0D46DA5B8@traduction-libre.org> <87pmvq8ef2.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.11.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 28 X-Spam_score: 2.8 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1626283953; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=VkMS3Bqm3UpF+QFVoHD1AoRi26DO4sv9oS2OEyrKnyc=; b=FnZbhOEyiwInrrb8HhdlDzWPwnZYcUiNmBHmlsBi8c1tKW6SxT9kCE/eelTSXigNnp6iL7 z/OHg0gdpLrexDljb95ujsUaTqwvH2kS5pUb6kK5Iqde5KuNLznF3FcrfkTqgd0GgOhGCO XGxziiIDQhlp+TGY6UUZhE8vUwLiQGS5aBFBHDO0yTEB3anlVxBTBZtO3h/hCiJf4lBWv+ gM7IZr3qGiboGkj9x5palIF1dTO3kCLKmHxuBzyacgoDz+RsiqAeYTBBm/gFwvXjJlg4Qw dm9pRRRApCPlh/LiFe8tdVu+xVkoDXjE+GYIqabqHhZdrdDHljggfl8t0eIZ4Q== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1626283953; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Y30h3IB7sMTwfkxnk/wld1VVccNX3P3t/uYGbYF/c5AbxdCJl3mPKgI1ZeAfCOTIwVWbe6 T50vqXb4VCvxyxfabZJJ5kqrS4ojcrHaLTmeUR9uqzBPP3mIZWIrbYFmrs0lKBGaB0SKgX F9qE9mt0WsM/+B/KxcJEvmtYRY7zpCnjQWYNbCsaqiKD0w0+6WNWD8aLgDgRUoc3vQYuq3 YbjvahUvnuHAozJdPALHTctz6w1j1XTHOlvspe0+4ijg5X6HJ+GL9XR9wwr56/BblgKplE WoTn/ekiSPjcsYPpqwmc4walR5rAKJxlzscTqkV7v91O7aSi4VCPA8yUFpg49g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.80 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6C42821A31 X-Spam-Score: -1.80 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: O19NgSj2Ummg On 14/07/2021 13:44, Stefan Nobis wrote: > > The main point: utf8x and the associated package ucs are not > maintained for quite some time (utf8x seems to be last changed in > 2004) and as far as I understand have always been more of a workaround > than a solution. But I'm not an expert in this regard. > > Nowadays the LaTeX kernel and input encodings like (plain) utf8 are > much more powerful and extensible and do play much better with other > packages. I was unlucky to notice the utf8x option when ≠ character was discussed on this mail list in the context of pseudocode listings. I am afraid, year 2004 is impressive in other sense than you expected. "Better" solution still unable to handle ≠ (unlike deprecated one). Actually necessity to explicitly specify several fonts reminds me end of previous century when Cyrillic fonts was not in default package set and required manual adjustment of config files (not to mention missed support in babel and inputenc, so several partially incompatible variants were used at that time). > You need to specify all fonts that you want to use and that deviate > from the default (Latin Modern in the case of lualatex). How else > should the system now that you want something else? There are cm-super fonts for at least of 15 years. OK, they are Type1, not otf or ttf and conversion from metafont was not lossless. (Actually the only real problem I noticed is that some rare printers ignore hairlines.) Why is the Latin Modern family used if CMU is available? Nowadays most of applications have no problem with wide range of Unicode characters. However it is a kind of trade-off to preserve traditional Computer Modern font (a kind of feature of TeX) or to pick a system font with more characters. > The package "unicode-math" should always be used with lualatex and > xelatex, in order to support unicode math input. Thank you for the hint. Do you think Org should use it by default? Are there any caveats? > In your minimal example neither polyglossia nor babel are required They are almost unavoidable in any real document unless it is preview of e.g. particular equation. On 14/07/2021 00:53, Juan Manuel Macías wrote:> And here I add that feature to Linux Libertine font: > > \setmainfont{Linux Libertine O}[RawFeature=+mysub] It is wonderful that custom font can be chosen so easily. I was never brave enough and I did not have strong enough reason to follow lengthy guides how to use ttf font in latex+dvips+ps2pdf workflow. However custom fonts are for special documents. It perfectly suits for e.g. a book when camera ready variant is required. For routine notes it is better to keep from defaults as minimal as possible to minimize problems that may arise a decade later. I would prefer to avoid Linux Libertine if I am going to send source file to a colleague having another OS. I prefer to do fine tuning at the last stages of preparation of a document. It is sad that default fonts are often unusable for me. > For multilingual management I recommend using Babel instead of > Polyglossia. I have no experience with polyglossia yet. I added it just because most of examples for LuaLaTeX or XeLaTeX use it. TeX takes responsibility for a lot of things and it allows to get rather pleasant results with minimal efforts due to reasonable defaults. Unlike Apache FO processor for general formatting. Equations were looking disgusting in MS Word till ~2010. This topic started from question concerning multilingual support out of the box. I can not help with Japanese quotes. However some problems can be noticed with e.g. (sorry for some raw LaTeX): ---- >8 ---- Test¹ of superscript and ½ fraction. *«Теорема».* /Пусть/ $α → ∞$ и $\beta \to \infty$. =Катет= и \textsf{гипотенуза}. Åå. Text Greek α. µm. Text utf8x ≠ utf8 and math $8 ≠ x$. ---- 8< ----- Current default in Org is pdflatex. It requires at least adjusting of fontspec by adding T2A option. If LuaTeX and XeLaTeX handles Unicode better, is it possible to make any of them the default option and to leave pdflatex as a fallback? Is it possible to detect lualatex and xelatex in runtime? I have noticed that /usr/bin/lualatex belongs to texlive-latex-base package. Originally I did not have texlive-luatex package installed, so likely lualatex was rather broken despite presence of the binary in the system. Should some packages for lualatex and xelatex be added to default list to minimize user problems and at the same time keeping configuration safe? (unicode-math, etc.) Is it possible to provide reasonable defaults for fonts? Since lmodern is hardcoded in luatex and xetex, it may be done either by some usually available latex package or by org code and custom variables. If some defaults can not be determined (e.g. \setmainfont) likely they should be explicitly mentioned in the org manual.