From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id oKLWNp/ZEWQ8KAAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 15:43:43 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id GBLWNp/ZEWQ9RwAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 15:43:43 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CFD03D90 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 15:43:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pcSL8-0001T3-Q4; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 10:42:54 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pcSL6-0001Rq-7p for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 10:42:52 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pcSL4-0000gQ-QR for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 10:42:51 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pcSL1-0009jk-Kz for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 15:42:47 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 21:42:39 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87lelce6iu.fsf@localhost> <87357i9959.fsf@localhost> <877cwse95m.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.7.1 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 28 X-Spam_score: 2.8 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1678891423; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=a4hFjXRS3A9YeQio0Nl8Uvva7lL6RthyMhhDgL1K6yjoBeORF/WJVzHCWKzsetxJmm3xWR aFSaBK4yGhM2/ZgcPpTsriYUG8Dv90dCdviuYxf5uVD7I78veTw/uDMC5Dn8UiKbvqSDi8 DLuaA4fq2AtS+0qgGEkRdIU7L444DVE4rvyk+M8gzD/arYw/1DSXGx76eTzE0EE5AL54wj wKn4j7LpzrnhvHZOon/CTcW3SXFF8KZh+WKXdwfD2HjlmagFbyEFramdBPJW1XfQDa8Qul zzOiBuWa/oBd7c88pXbmNbXMMl1JDTxQnO2nK5d6lSSm/XUcLw+RG3/ArI/UIw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1678891423; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=YzBy0TpBVp/xscJtTPc5qftrH/CyElnqQCzCM9CCyEs=; b=WTkdbYm9QkAra/HY7gVyE0OruOK7jPkQddTQxDwBFiG50h7nwsA2Rjg99tedkL1CXfBkDV NniLjtOg6jUxkbfQyqSxYQYJrDOZTb4RN8OmCEdYA5HmFAphkAX7lOObZGxeyX94zbmHP+ plMT86rfE4quJNFlAPvBvfvQTe6tQ/5Wmi6F7zJCT1brW9C4hWmYMVB4VZtzgvxi2UNy9V G88EgOOkTUCs/750+olgwVEaJ56i215BKv08zLc767tiaeoKKtqr2uRlZT/kC4oAV2+JxG 8La0RVIvxyJNO4kvQnisxCm5EvVjA11vHXwreXohYv0J43u6VGwOnirYHPPwZQ== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.93 X-Spam-Score: -0.93 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 8CFD03D90 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) X-TUID: t57h9L57iqLQ On 10/02/2023 10:29, Jean Louis wrote: > https://icalendar.org/iCalendar-RFC-5545/3-3-5-date-time.html > > ,---- > | The form of date and time with UTC offset MUST NOT be used. For > | example, the following is not valid for a DATE-TIME value: > | > | 19980119T230000-0800 ;Invalid time format > `---- > > As with the above format, author would maybe think it is alright, but > in general it is confusing. If author wish to specify UTC time, then > no offset shall be used. RFC-5545 specifies a machine readable format. Org files are for humans even in raw text format. Decisions suitable for iCalendar are not always applicable for Org. The timestamp in the examples follows ISO-8601 and I have no idea why it is confusing. Offsets for RFC5545 means - More code for parsing (negligible amount though) - Due to wide spread confusions, an implementer may pretend that timezones are supported just because offsets are saved despite missed IANA TZ ID. In respect to Org offsets and time zone identifiers are discussed in this thread in details. As a format for humans it should be more permissible and convenient for direct typing. There is no reason to insist on UTC where timestamps with fixed offsets are equally valid.