From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id sKqkGWpLxF+aCQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 01:31:22 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id qChrFWpLxF/gDwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 01:31:22 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B97EC940222 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 2020 01:31:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:54530 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjY2A-0004v3-TE for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:31:19 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49722) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjXyi-0004uh-Hh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:27:44 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:49833) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kjXyg-0006SF-AD for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Nov 2020 20:27:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1606699659; bh=SyrWQWQtWmSoPZP50wEi5eqquu5PDZpajMOkBwdEHjc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=iV6r9qLkWO3O7ZcM9A8Kokv0FsyMmpCtoqKL3ETYAXMpku31X4T12wCKm32vUoOCz N+xX/e2iczQaVY1+s87x7IsrFKHxxuf8p3ROlUcUknq2Y+MY1mEsnS9k5sAPCkcHKw EJO+iPTv/aVfw/9BF89VXuDBFlFA972uEOZ3A6xY= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [213.165.168.94] ([213.165.168.94]) by web-mail.gmx.net (3c-app-mailcom-bs12.server.lan [172.19.170.180]) (via HTTP); Mon, 30 Nov 2020 02:27:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Christopher Dimech To: Tim Cross Subject: Re: bug#44935: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwriting user options Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 02:27:39 +0100 Importance: normal Sensitivity: Normal In-Reply-To: <87lfejy80o.fsf@gmail.com> References: <837dq4mcb1.fsf@gnu.org> <87ft4rrhad.fsf@kyleam.com> <87r1obyabn.fsf@gmail.com> <87lfejy80o.fsf@gmail.com> X-UI-Message-Type: mail X-Priority: 3 X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:3/SmqLuE2q+XvNLACRpG9nybcQozTQUnkwMXHIJImRi+NuX0Q0ShzuenJ3csH9DIIpQGl sMzzp5v1e14FtaUwTMxTUFoOt8VDGspzLDFD2+JmS3/FD57UJh4neV7vLiJeI1Osszgpl7anQxdB HgWUUJKJs0wT2fszZRMrwj6pKwJ4QnuYDIr9GsO+M2BwMEJ/2Wi0GRBReBiJc7E61MygWsLvxFGL gf0uUCeYiRw0oYVcil1RrQCQ4/Mw0r0rfHtMFHZ88C49iSUYSYwLBYMQ1SvkQlOIwJDBsFTMod6K hU= X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:dur31bL9dlk=:2rOrArU1gMwxqoL1hMjMyD LVBkYze8uU2t3XdN/WTpUwrdLqMrz8dgKqQ2JLvrv9cO3mShxQU9eP9tJG5TXI3cqYUbQa3pE nUf6ITqxz6V4j5ShyKbkvY1sbQhlOqzm9HdScwz/pamj3zS7RcdBO+VxABoqPUK+7nH7Pt+Se GkskOGclAm3t8V8aQG9TJwzR1IZxCACmfplPxifHzQh/Tu0Fd5jpdvSd3CHy99GuwIqZsdGdZ 9HUco4gFjYFKDvcyTcieUPzhiexVPfjltwQSNCrOQUrggiUpWNqZB5ft/Lkebm0lhdaTaMESQ uBZnpx5+lcgo9pLU5GWRHlCYLTBJvo+4PNd/h9vOrb2iomqHUJnQZOt4zk8HsuZNt4ccuhqrk FJSB3iRK3SLSQfLFSWggawhMUNsx2OZNNj78FBR0eMCciRqSmVHe3yaWf1bGUqN7udqr35Z2o HF/2Wi0o9PqSlSjA0Fx6KDew0OPX5Ntm+TVRlJ0IjrmWisOZ6RUAem+twGxK4Y40ZjoSvEmw/ gYhQ6YBKXiX0TxbkSKLtBRL2R7QZ+fysWHUfIuzwPKOhRqzEmApUbxiIluSozzkHHRLXv36Nl s6DYEzx65Ij48= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.15; envelope-from=dimech@gmx.com; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.98 X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmx.net header.s=badeba3b8450 header.b=iV6r9qLk; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-TUID: IjyTmNivDlV8 > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 at 1:59 AM > From: "Tim Cross" > To: "Christopher Dimech" > Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > Subject: Re: bug#44935: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variabl= e, overwriting user options > > > Christopher Dimech writes: > > >> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 at 1:09 AM > >> From: "Tim Cross" > >> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > >> Subject: Re: bug#44935: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files vari= able, overwriting user options > >> > >> > >> daniela-spit@gmx.it writes: > >> > >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 10:51 PM > >> >> From: "Gyro Funch" > >> >> To: daniela-spit@gmx.it, "Kyle Meyer" > >> >> Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > >> >> Subject: Re[2]: bug#44935: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-file= s variable, overwriting user options > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> >> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2020 at 10:20 PM > >> >> >> From: "Kyle Meyer" > >> >> >> To: daniela-spit@gmx.it > >> >> >> Cc: "gyro funch" , emacs-orgmode@gnu.o= rg > >> >> >> Subject: Re: bug#44935: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-fil= es variable, overwriting user options > >> >> >> > >> >> >>daniela-spit@gmx.it writes: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> From: "gyro funch" > >> >> >> [...] > >> >> >> >> If I'm not mistaken, all of the development is done by volu= nteers. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Perhaps you could help resolve your issue instead of asking= other > >> >> >> >> people, who are likely already overworked, to shoulder the = burden. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Is there a mailing list for abuse? If I want abuse I shall = ask for it. > >> >> >> > Loser! > >> >> > > >> >> >> I don't see anything that gyro said as abuse. Name calling, o= n the > >> >> >> other hand, has no place on this list. > >> >> > > >> >> >One asks for help, and people tell you to go fix it yourself. If= there > >> >> >is any disrespect, you bring it upon yourselves. And now you sta= rt. > >> >> >Another Gnu Goon. > >> >> > >> >> I have found that people on this list are extremely friendly, cour= teous, > >> >> and helpful. > >> >> I suggest that you look back at the way you asked for/demanded hel= p and > >> >> the various responses you gave in this thread. > >> >> Taking on an attitude of entitlement and showing a lack of respect= for > >> >> others, their perspectives, and efforts may not be the best way to= get > >> >> help. > >> > > >> > Nonsense. > >> > >> Not nonsense at all. You responses have become rude and unhelpful. I = can > >> understand how you may be frustrated by the bug reporting situation, = but > >> your response to that frustration has been to complain and be critica= l in > >> a very non-constructive manner. You have now descended into name call= ing > >> and personal abuse. You are beginning to exhibit behaviour > >> which is not welcome here and which will result in people ignoring yo= ur > >> posts. Multiple people have now pointed this out, which should make y= ou > >> stop and think rather than become emotional and respond defensively. > >> > >> the ball is now in your court. How you respond will influence how oth= ers > >> respond to your requests and suggestions going forward. > > > > Please be aware that it was pointed out that one can configure > > org-agenda-skip-unavailable-files to a non-nil value if she wants > > non-existing/unreadable files to be skipped. > > > > But that option isn't mentioned in the manual or the docstring of the > > org-agenda-files option. The problem is known and has been a source o= f great > > frustration, that's why it was introduced. > > > > Daniela is quite right. If multiple people don't want to help her, th= at's > > fine, many others will. > > > > The issue at this point wasn't about whether there is a problem with how > org manages org-agenda-files or even the acknowledged weakness in the > documentation which needs a patch. The issue here is about attitude and > being respectful. > > We can disagree on things. Opposing views are a good thing provided the > expression of these opposing views is done with respect. This means no > personal attacks, no calling names, no personal abuse. > > We all have different levels of sensitivity and some have thicker skin > than others. However, once multiple people express the opinion that an > attitude is not appropriate for the list, the responsibility is with the > originator to consider that feedback and either adjust to meet community > expectations, leave the community or continue without change and accept > whatever consequences (if any) the list decides is appropriate. Ok, let me deal with this. But please, can we be better ourselves. Am sure she wanted to send a report so things get better for others. She knew how to solve the problem by only putting a list of files that exist. Furthermore, we are updating the manual on the available option that addressed her problem, a detail that was most likely obscure. Some good she has done. We are not doing the work specifically for her, but to everybody. Agreed? > -- > Tim Cross >