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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Ihor Radchenko Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.00 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmx.net header.s=badeba3b8450 header.b=O/5Pqyk2; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 71CB69404D2 X-Spam-Score: -2.00 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: FmioqxuNGmme > Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 at 6:19 AM > From: "Jean Louis" > To: daniela-spit@gmx.it > Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, "Ihor Radchenko" > Subject: Re: Emacs inserts hardwired org-agenda-files variable, overwrit= ing user options > > * daniela-spit@gmx.it [2020-12-12 05:41]: > > > And I think it is possible for anybody regardless of programming ski= ll > > > level to make one's own system of management of tasks within less th= an > > > a week that will get more aligned to personal individualized way of > > > handling tasks, then trying to accommodate personal needs to softwar= e > > > that may have gone one completly wrong direction. > > > > If I said that I would be barraged by accusations of rudeness! :) > > The key is in steganography: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography :) > Org mode is popular within subset of population using it where each > other encourage to use it more regardless of how much tedious efforts > it needs itself just to function how users would like it. Additionally > majority of users use functions of Org mode which they would not need > would they be simple be organized. A person well organized does not > look throug agenda as that means lack of organization. Agenda helps > those which are not organized. Just look at any friend or person who > organizes life without computer and compare to people using Org > mode. Software should replace slow methods with papers and make > planning faster and non-repetitive. Any software shall help human to > speed up actions. > > In general Org mode is excellent for personal TODO lists. That is what > is offered in the menu, that is what is advertised. Problem is that > there is no warning for users that personal TODO lists are not meant > for anything but that. There is no collaboration, putting TODO items > eveywhere IS procrastination. Using org-agenda to find procrastination > is another procrastination. Trying to glue everything together is > absence of good planning and not planning. Carsten would disagree with that evaluation. It is also for organising professional life - with plain text. Still, if you are disorganized, you can use it. Or perhaps if one is lazy - like myself, many things I do nat have an interest in but have to oversee at least some parts of them. > While reading how people write to mailing list trying to solve > problems they would never solve in the real world with paper I am > getting more and more surprised. > > What Org mode needs is at least few Wiki pages where various methods > of planning are presented as that could be useful to help people > minimize their procrastination. > > My experience comes from writing plans since more than 25 years. I was > always writing it on paper. Actions are chronologically and logically > ordered. Main objectives are always well defined for which purpose > subordinate actions have to be conducted. If main objectives are > fullfiled those subordinate actions become redundant or superfluous. > > From Org info file: > > > 5 TODO Items > > ************ > > > Org mode does not maintain TODO lists as separate documents(1). > > Instead, TODO items are an integral part of the notes file, because TO= DO > > items usually come up while taking notes! > > For personal planning this may be fine for many, but I consider it bad > habbit. If there is an action item then put any information necessary > for that action within the action item. Print it along if > necessary. Handle your thinker notes first once and completely and > include what is necessary in action items. > > - person will not read the notes written back in time over and over > again. > > - if notes are not necessary for the action, why put them in front of > oneself to be read > > - horrible situations will take place if those notes which are not > necessary are put in front of collaborator who is now expected to > read action item and fulfill the action > > > because TODO items usually come up while taking notes! > > My action items have been written in project documents executed by > multiple groups of people in multiple countries on distances of 5000+ > kilometers away including by people who have never seen me face to > face. I have never put "notes" together with action items. > > Whoever wrote that "TODO items usually comes up while taking notes" > was referring to oneself and imposes this habit which I never had onto > others. > > In other words the manual imposes specific method of planning without > comparison to other methods of planning. Then users learn that is > right thing to do, ah, let me put everything together. > > Since 2016 almost all project planning was written by Org mode as I > find it useful to get LaTeX/PDF output. It is then printed, carried > physically by people on the ground and signed with initialy physically > by hand as DONE with the date and time. There known objectives and > those are targets to be fulfilled. > > Any notes arriving back from collaborators are not placed into project > planning. If such would enhance project planning they could become > part of planning for the next project. > > But generally the feedback notes do not relate to project planning > itself, they relate to people, organizations, findings on ground, they > are part of the report. It is not necessary to re-write the report > back into any Org file as the plan is separate from reports and > executions. Conclusions which come later could result in some new > plan. But initial plan is not to be mixed with new information, it is > rather kept intact and maybe improved for next time execution. > > > With Org mode, simply mark any entry in a tree as being a TODO > > item. In this way, information is not duplicated, and the entire > > context from which the TODO item emerged is always present. > > That is the method I speak about. It is method of lack of planning but > making "any entry in a tree as being a TODO item". That may be good > for personal planning if those TODO lists are not many. As soon as > lists become even little complex it will become opposite of what one > intended to have. Instead of organized lists one get disorganized > lists. TODO is everywhere. > > > Of course, this technique for managing TODO items scatters them > > throughout your notes file. Org mode compensates for this by > > providing methods to give you an overview of all the things that you > > have to do. > > The Org manual does admit that the offered method is not a method at > all. It speaks of habits of some disorganized authors who simply did > not knew better. That TODO items are scattered it is not even > considered bad habbit. That it prevents any kind of collaboration is > not considered a bug. That it will ask for millions of compensations > to get the overview of all things one has to do is presented as > something common or normal. It is common only to procrastinators. > > My projects in Org mode were not written with TODO tags mostly because > the projects are often duplicated or enhanced for various groups and > persons and are NOT personaly. Duplicated projects would give me > duplicate results if I would be using Org agenda. Which I do not > use. I was looking at it from viewpoint to see what it does, but I > never used. Why should I if I have not scattered my lists of actions > around? > > If I have assigned some actions to me personally yesterday, I will > know next day what is to be done. If there are many there will be list > of things. Because list of things is anyway action item there will be > no need to place large "TODO" tag there. Everything is TODO. When > completed check it out. In collaborative execution of projects it has > to be signed by initials and checked out with date and time. We want > things done, and not spend time on computer to satisfy bad design of > software that is not meant to be project planning software. Why should > I be switching TODO items on computer back and forth when completed? > Sounds redundant to me personally. If item is action it is in the list > of actions, there is no need to mark it TODO. I may mark it completed > and never turn it back again as TODO. > > Maybe every Org user could improve their execution of tasks in life by > actually printing the tasks, by actually using PDF export and using > papers. > > Prepare the list for printing. Your thinking will be different if you > need to print it. Your list will have more sense. Especially try to > prepare the list for other people to understand it. You will minimize > the number of scattered intertwined notes around the action items this > way. Print your list. Execute what is in the list. Compare the time > you spend by using papers. You want your things done, you don't want > marking properties, tags all the time. Get it done. Mark whole project > as DONE in your computer file, archive or discard it. > > Then later in some other project try to do it with the Org mode alone > on computer and without printing. Then see how much time you spend in > making "decorations" in your Org file like tags, properties, > etc. Review how many times you changed your schedule, deadline, > etc. In other words observe your own procrastination. > > Compare the time you spend by using Org mode directly with the time > you spend by using papers. I often include org commands in source code which I can then parse. For instance, I can use it to determine the cyclomatic complexity of code, and help in admin tasks. > Jean > > > > >