From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2PnNCpDV2GN10wAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 09:47:12 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id yCerCpDV2GP8AwEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 09:47:12 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0980E11C7D for ; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 09:47:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pMlmh-00035e-Ch; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 03:14:31 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pMlmf-00035R-Gh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 03:14:29 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pMlme-0005wb-5u for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 03:14:29 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pMlmb-0003Aj-Td for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Jan 2023 09:14:25 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2023 15:14:20 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87tu0mjb24.fsf@tsdye.online> <63ca1283.170a0220.5bc81.0fdd@mx.google.com> <87pmb9k8oi.fsf@tsdye.online> <3035CDD5-41DD-4516-9E4E-9E0DF16BE2E0@gmail.com> <63d43ec5.630a0220.87fac.44e2@mx.google.com> <63d6d931.170a0220.84f9f.11fd@mx.google.com> <63d83f1d.170a0220.f1df3.e85f@mx.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 27 X-Spam_score: 2.7 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.09, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1675154832; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ZpJnvREhpRxgllerBaQTiNvNQDuKYna2nazWBqvaG+B8/qLey+isYCtB9YFv7TEx0caYZO Gu3BxzgXZ+rmYTXQQls7TF9AXdOXWwK6fBsEdv0SxKeiuS5u2JFUljGXtsTKFmNh7OaTSt c7oyn66ZMkWwKCoB5i5j29tiBhyOnkWYAQSEFfTidg0Ru87hdH8E4ZIccKGr9f/2ZT4k3P OBwVbvu9F5KI+FAQkM5BPRrKssygJF7awBKHDBu3w0PDqD08AJEYLRAWKkLVr9UeQwGjq7 6s/tjL6I5Ylt+qkGwwH6eJvWXyzp5AdwZYb1sd/e1nYfcZaiVlTBSYj/F9koUA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1675154832; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=esntS/y2MisW0CRM7/1YvWLU+y7ugOZhI3IsDVZ9Zo8=; b=b8w8A41eKH4g3yU+4MmAPsPQGF5owO38kCmT5HQRlMhfe3sb7NJzTx0dbILK/4/Yh7cVwL MZFB/TgUjVFRpA95OoX5tQLjXWCWgHDzFzroLa8Wz0FPo0F/WusFCn2jgHC+SezcpZuHUs he6wVeY3cns3+nNIschV0gSy0Y736Qxmo34OXCv+FuqkXbCRrcNwh/USkSjIxwtmWjv4xF snW1L3wt2UAG/JkwHKU00AnWfFaeWbiP4g3ql69cbbtbCA76+2kX1yTe6Kn/3cfURaz5Ob F9z9FDiwdWaQQeuGBZwl3oTbHTcJzEV1QpvhPe3rDm7Hk9yJI+Gi8S3MWmxnEw== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none) X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 4.12 X-Spam-Score: 4.12 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 0980E11C7D X-TUID: c3SopY7spMgu On 31/01/2023 14:04, Jean Louis wrote: > I have given facts, and references with the sole intention to help in > understanding so that Org programmers do not start relying on UTC > offset alone, as that is not how other programs work. From my point of view at the beginning you were promoting that Org must use purely UTC timestamps just because PostgreSQL recommends timestamptz type. Now you are insisting that every timestamp must have timezone with rules describing DST and other transitions. In both cases you are doing it with excessive passion. Currently you are arguing with people who have already agreed that location-based timezones are important, e.g. Tim and Thomas. I am in doubts if it is helpful to someone. P.S. - There are cases when local time + time zone must be stored. - There are cases when UTC or UTC + fixed offset must be stored. - There are cases when UTC or UTC + fixed offset is enough, however time zone can be added.