From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 2DLHFJOzymObpgAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 16:30:27 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id UNt+FJOzymOzgQAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 16:30:27 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 129E228AD6 for ; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 16:30:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pItKo-0002tF-UK; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:29:43 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pItKn-0002rO-Ag for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:29:41 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pItKl-0001HR-Uw for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 10:29:41 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pItKj-0000K0-QC for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Jan 2023 16:29:37 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2023 22:29:31 +0700 Message-ID: References: <63c66048.630a0220.427bf.a5f6@mx.google.com> <87r0vtiks0.fsf@localhost> <63c671c0.a70a0220.61aa5.56b8@mx.google.com> <87fsc88aq9.fsf@localhost> <63c7dd3d.170a0220.6b4d6.f84f@mx.google.com> <877cxk6oeu.fsf@localhost> <63c86454.170a0220.80970.652d@mx.google.com> <63c8f5a6.170a0220.ea8cf.7f96@mx.google.com> <63c9b654.170a0220.d82d2.4254@mx.google.com> <63ca3229.170a0220.a0833.5667@mx.google.com> <63ca4dc3.a70a0220.858e2.96f8@mx.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <63ca4dc3.a70a0220.858e2.96f8@mx.google.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 27 X-Spam_score: 2.7 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.089, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1674228627; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qAHp4KAz54Yg3T+0SApTmQ1XzmjgeB47Xt75ZO5/smQDb0grzgbgI390to4TggwyuWXZUZ VeHq10fs/e//HtSwDQZ7wl/wFDKziiqckLMz4kK/Od449dQ9C9vJ+vOvihmvq9bSnaXck1 oLDaHANyw7K4c4vBPN82bLmf2XdzdDxsIA7qNv0ejTe4bv9wB3D9u9Z7HOxqzQE5PH+oAx uks+6g3iyacpKLBfFRUpUvV+HWDfG8Pv3fZK6U9tlTftHSu7OfYni5Ve+TCV4+pmL/FALM feolcH9AJC3SJ3+D+hX+AIMOjmc/IJ42dz5MJ4uFvuU6TCeQGPMnJ6y3x9dq5A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1674228627; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=rb6LtLoDevbTr1vNWoju4dPx1+P5nrWRiZlf54RlLg8=; b=iGvN7JGbgeeuA0ZCXbrh3hynLTVMk8xiYHKCQsBnYDH7nSQwHg54jz7qManEkub1JNgPEo FAYh2rZxePOGxc76Et0Zae4X0cFQ+MCkZPTuq3GKYOf93WcyG1QzIqu6ltSYiIxLu6okSY QBIma5s53HyqGC9d6Z8aIOofGB7gowM8OhzTkTHB5hw1Rwv509k379C5WCchXlYbLHRjt/ ED9FyAajDn31dHF/Y6tOemPOfYHwEgpt0FbX6p8xjeWM0Njbl5vALMDXZtwS2eiN9+STGO V7DkJ/IekELzC3SbaGU6rYKw9dxYKhPigiW+zYMOLoq2X/BvARZLtwgkh9xTtQ== X-Spam-Score: 3.79 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 129E228AD6 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 3.79 X-TUID: aBqcU4xgOBIG On 20/01/2023 15:11, Tim Cross wrote: > Max Nikulin writes: > >> Tim, I am trying to say that any meeting either face to face or on-line may be associated >> with arbitrary primary timezone. > > and what you are saying is helpful how? In what way does what you are > sayhing help address my use case? Tim, are you trying to convince me that for Org it is enough to have timestamps either as local time <2023-02-20 15:00> or as UTC something like <2023-02-20 05:00Z> and ability to specify arbitrary timezone instead of UTC is redundant? I believe that in the case of support of optional arbitrary timezone in Org files there is no point of distinction between you cases when all participants meet face to face (<2023-02-20 15:00> or <2023-02-20 15:00@Australia/Sydney>) or it is online meeting scheduled as <2023-02-20 09:00@Etc/UTC>. >> UI might offer you to choose time in your timezone and to select another timezone for >> storage. For your convenience it still may be presented to you in your local timezone even >> it is stored in UTC or some other one. > > and I have said as much. So, how exactly is your contribution assisting > with the use case I've outlined? I had a hope to assure you that unifying the cases you are considering as distinct should not make user experience worse. Local event and UTC is meaningful for UI to enter or adjust timestamp where such cases should be easier to select than arbitrary timezone. For parsing, generating agenda, or export a more abstract model can be used.