From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id YHmqDc4Zx2Ev6gAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2021 14:17:02 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id GIRaCc4Zx2G3egAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2021 13:17:02 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B274B8E7E for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2021 14:17:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:46478 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n16uy-00082q-RJ for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:17:00 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38902) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n16tr-00080n-DR for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:15:51 -0500 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:47642) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n16tp-0003LM-Bt for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2021 08:15:50 -0500 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n16ti-000AK7-Hw for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Dec 2021 14:15:42 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: text after sub headings? Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2021 20:15:36 +0700 Message-ID: References: <9881E3B7-A1F0-4C0F-AED6-893368A6FEA0@icloud.com> <87wnjvvzgv.fsf@posteo.net> <87fsqhhi5f.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.14.0 In-Reply-To: <87fsqhhi5f.fsf@posteo.net> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 26 X-Spam_score: 2.6 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.196, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1640438221; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=WzSI0F++PyuOycf5sK6YwlyCHP0kYonqtmgsd63rDj8=; b=J49cfSF7aHCRwSbAAwDlRLaA6W7WKoa7U1mfHNZLd1l/+ugpfiHPXoUZtR+2aT5mOZkc1y ClXga3wkB2FMIQjYaEyB49YL1A0trEp+rRCuzxaOkjA1RMhjausdFIDyBd+pmo4lOouuXW zqYlwOWq24EHYezQ3BdNlJGW7N471OTaKw15mBN6ovAIKlsQ/PEAB17CbHY6le/K//X6mC Yv5Ox3ZqiByYWPAob7iWyqlHP0HedPVXd7CzLlXL6x8c/c+bcHhZHNxDzr+60JrZdRSdCp VCWkLgK08IE8wRYTH7H3BIArkq6hSopadnGtzQ9rZYNFE1nEs3bkgPdWKQbATQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1640438221; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Ch6dxJjzgrXb+vL3V0IWwCNlYfiLee785LYAywe2HKdQR07EcHFGmcNpHsMcNb+nBKrzOC YNfUQ4UIUhB2EZiCCflEYSipFRRuIuzmUwNOGUoNId2usQStRWMdo4oIN43g+kxCfB8p4W 727ijhJaUXflxpqAk9N6+0Ck9uNhOJa3vDz7bn7pMif7zYsuIsu2ofO1eX7/ye5KVrqUBO 6oB39wfiVUC61rWKL9PdaCC/uBta5oa1qLw/DWmtokbr3zCxNfomI7mDy+3I001Jq2K/bT mGqFma5GqY5D/dByPAN+6tP7hBxyeB5Tc+OjAMAlUfjXFOiavjqkFHgp+nCp6w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.46 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: B274B8E7E X-Spam-Score: -1.46 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ZcgM/ztZF1gr On 25/12/2021 03:17, Juan Manuel Macías wrote: > Max Nikulin writes: > >> It may have larger margins, smaller font, distinct font face, >> another background color, box around or just rule at some side, so >> readers have clear notion where it ends and main material continues. > > This is complex layout, something that DTP programs (InDesign, Quark, > Scribus) do very well as they work on the concept of multiple threads of > connected text boxes. It is not necessary complex layout. It is a decoration similar to pictures in fiction books. Unlike figures such additions are not strictly important to understand material. In printed form it is like figures however. Insets are appropriate in particular places, but tolerate some shift due to paging. This particular examples has internal structure: http://algorithmics.lsi.upc.edu/docs/Dasgupta-Papadimitriou-Vazirani.pdf#page=135 Book reader on small phone screen might require a tap to show all additional material. On wide screen in may appear on margins and visible by default. In Org it migh remain collapsed when heading is expanded while text around is visible. I have not worked with complex documents in DTP programs. In my opinion, LaTeX deals much better with figures (plots, drawings) in scientific papers than office software. When users complains that LaTeX puts at their figures and table at the end of the document it usually means that they copy-pasted markup explicitly forbidding most of usual places for floats (e.g. page completely filled with figures). It is possible to create insets in Org Mode document, but it is not native support. In a bit broader sense insets do not violates tree structure - Branch: Section Heading - Leaf: section text - Branch: Inset section Heading - Leaf: inset section text - Branch: Inset Subsection Heading 1 - Leaf: Inset subsection 1 text - Branch: Inset Subsection Heading 2 - Leaf: Inset subsection 2 text - Leaf: section text continues Another example when it is convenient to have text itermixed with headings is notes. Tree structure is too rigid, particular note may be appropriate to several topics. Important point that sometimes it is better to have particular order within some topic, if ordering is not required than all links may appear before subheadings. So not text is put to one topic, other ones contains links. Ideally it should appear like * Topic 2 some general notes *** Note 2.1... *** Note 2.2... [[#note_from_other_topic1]] contains some interesting details *** Note 2.4... [[#note_from_other_topic2]] contains other interesting details *** Note 2.6... It would be nice to have links visually distinct from headings and there is no real reason to collapse link if description text is just a couple of line. I do not ask to change anything. I admit that nobody has bright idea how to properly implement it. I am just against statements that Org is ideal in respect to sectioning and covers all use cases. My opinion that it is limitation, there are some workarounds and trade-offs for each particular case. Anyway there is no unambiguously better tool.