From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id +HxpCG5IxF4mGwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 20:58:22 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id gLxQBG5IxF7TRwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 20:58:22 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B39C9940B0D for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 20:58:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:41320 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb9Jc-00057W-JJ for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:58:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34042) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb9JH-000566-5i for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:57:59 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([159.69.161.202]:46338) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb9JF-0008Ps-Uz for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:57:58 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jb9JD-0000nH-9W for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 22:57:55 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org From: gyro funch Subject: Re: issue tracker? Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 14:57:48 -0600 Message-ID: References: <20200519165720.GQ30250@volibear> <20200519172941.GR30250@volibear> <91d36855-ff5d-46cf-91b8-2621fb5cfcab@www.fastmail.com> <20200519194833.GS30250@volibear> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------365335172579EEBD8BDC716E" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 X-Pep-Version: 2.0 In-Reply-To: <20200519194833.GS30250@volibear> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=159.69.161.202; envelope-from=geo-emacs-orgmode@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/19 15:33:13 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: 26 X-Spam_score: 2.6 X-Spam_bar: ++ X-Spam_report: (2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA=2.309, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: 0.59 X-TUID: hAr7nXct68EQ This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------365335172579EEBD8BDC716E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/19/2020 1:48 PM, Russell Adams wrote: > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 01:50:26PM -0500, James R Miller wrote: >> I think an actual issue tracker has merit to large projects. >> >> And I don't think simply saying "we've always done it through a ML" or= "$FOO >> project is bigger than us and uses a ML" is good enough. $FOO project = may very >> well increase efficiency, code quality, and/or participation by implem= enting >> an issue tracker. >> >> A project to consider then, might be some sort of system that interfac= es with >> the ML (as well as a simple REST api so that issues could be submitted= from >> inside emacs directly), that creates some sort of org-based issue trac= ker, and >> then ox-html exports to a static web page or pages. >=20 > My point about duplication of effort stands. Who/how/which solution? Wh= o has to > maintain it, and does that make two places to check while managing bugs= /patches? >=20 > Please note I'm not a complete luddite, nor have I any real influence i= n any > decision. >=20 > However I'll point out that with limited resources, the onus to suffici= ently > justify a major change falls on the person(s) making the recommendation= =2E Change > "just because" or "it's prettier" tend to fall on deaf ears in technica= l > communities. >=20 > I'd argue that code quality is more improved by the proper application = of > version control than whether bug reports are web based. This appears to= already > be the case. >=20 > If email is unmanageable, I'd assert that perhaps the user has a poor q= uality > mail reader that lacks threading support, and perhaps they should find = a better > one. >=20 > Is there a problem with submitting issues via the mailing list? Has som= ething > gone unaddressed? Do you have any statistics to show that there is decr= eased > participation because you have to use email? Is something really ineffi= cient at > the moment? Did you have patches ignored? >=20 This idea that the tools used by a potential contributor are inadequate misses the point. If the intention is to keep a project going, or better yet increase the number of contributors, tools have to be used that will be convenient and familiar to those thinking about contributing. For better or worse, the workflows embodied by Github and Gitlab are familiar to the current generation of potential contributors upon which sustaining a project will depend. Holding up the 'Linux uses email for development and thus any project doing similar is right' fails to recognize the peculiar nature of the Linux kernel (and its developers) and neglects the thousands of projects that have increased their visibility and participation by using tools such as Github. I agree that Github/Gitlab may not be the best choice owing to their stance or implementation related to software freedom, but an honest discussion of alternatives seems prudent. -gyro --------------365335172579EEBD8BDC716E Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="pEpkey.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pEpkey.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBF6bDOgBCADhTF4Oo1qQuWuoRUeLa+dbW7mElFJUovsyhpav4iSpQMrHxQsa 5t+0DIIKujOIvPFWHnU7GM8gWDwNJHoqBuOblcMJPW+K0Kb/yMDEP9IpGvoV6nG3 OoqHPnxSkFBS0vwG5+GgKEJdvhuvVnl7dz0QAUca+5nlqQpMt5dMKqKaXj06oBF1 sgL8dIDPCXwag3VCy0ovXsnAY3XKiqPc7Crljc5WoRon63xB5ndvVwd3NSrkBYfH NDbVky2hTXWQ3x08+UE8qqX9yLJnNjPfrNFDJlC82FAHgyz793kwinhmybfTms+q x/1WreUFZloLgt0au5S4ZvKkvpTtSpuzLoy1ABEBAAG0I0d5cm8gRnVuY2ggPGd5 cm9tYWduZXRpY0BnbWFpbC5jb20+iQFUBBMBCAA+FiEEgWjkISaOx2uT6dEwNDCR mzyLU+sFAl6bDOwCGwMFCQHhM4AFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQ NDCRmzyLU+uMOgf/TOL8Ic7fCRuI88k6wrYb36MpXuusf6YOjeoc8picHAzNYmdw VG8gZAb8D+cf+sP+oBL2nO3qsFMwx5ZBM9niHwp7cSy7hT2C7wNKmf55wZUlehhk 3hGzfgMnvTPk0GNTNBD2sPe1P6hYvZcVQqiFd38ab+bUOrOylu1agSU5vgUoMxit qV1bcHoK6eRZrRgfcf5u5rrKymIiNg6WE/ijcxmP56syBj2rOjv1x8KTbPm4y9rL LRfeKv+EYYdDFNBJegWYyJNJuHa6RXZRTGHvwYwkpoVaFezFjEPyta7pt93HEsHx /LY6EjoAN5TwAi3NUp+eVKuY8lP0eDqkSmqebLkBDQRemwzpAQgAvuvla6TckHk8 EsfLPMwCNsTcO25iPbACxYpdKOh69Ym8/JyKJ1HsXsexRxxBTrm5U0bRamf8OFNI 1aPDyX8E3GlL1rGBKWLUgwPkph6tjv42m/8O/o6CXMWy8M/WtANnyS9veOeUD6di dsVidCsiIA28WQFEg2LjWvH+AeEUcHjTayuK5Q5Lrl7eqGqcDGtSN2aIJKj5ntXU XlRcLjjec8beOxRORDGrsyE6+qiEMKYmEqyg/9qtDmLAUGmqD8tFfdVjllacY52B lqlGv+Lj9zRPL95g/Y3leFQxRFwYkbm78OzmjeLXIrhCPutNj9RZTZB6RjWwgZ1t daHZhhuQBQARAQABiQE8BBgBCAAmFiEEgWjkISaOx2uT6dEwNDCRmzyLU+sFAl6b DOkCGwwFCQHhM4AACgkQNDCRmzyLU+u7uAf/VERq/WusM+biW7nVVrjnF8A6Z98C faEXSzTx1/+i/kitjX54kmHYzHMeGZnyEM7uNw45nDn+MfVB0Sh1k7qQwJFyLQSJ CWkUophyo4cF0CMO84OpgEXYYJIyJysEZdDQ1LnWsRlpjC/curb85QtLFf7kaGN6 WcbQXxTJMQz9F9WNsH2b31ttSP6W1xtuVjeg9WxROTONxqyocN1oV3k+79v/nGlf 33QSmnSPBnu378Lh+A5INJRdFcWgfBVBnbpg3fu/KvZP5ZjqV497+pLLfPwLOkuf EVFbcjyGnl4zb6HCZlwI7hXfIXgz1fvlj8C7pw0q9qvLNKR3qCeY89QpZw=3D=3D =3DBX2w -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --------------365335172579EEBD8BDC716E--