From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Robert Horn Subject: Re: Prefix arguments, checklists, and lists Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2013 12:24:19 -0500 Message-ID: References: , <878v7q2o9b.fsf@gmail.com>, , <87ehh99xfu.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51757) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U23Il-0002Rz-Jf for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Feb 2013 12:24:26 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U23Ii-00047D-RQ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Feb 2013 12:24:23 -0500 Received: from mailbackend.panix.com ([166.84.1.89]:40350) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1U23Ii-000479-Oi for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Feb 2013 12:24:20 -0500 In-reply-to: <87ehh99xfu.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Nicolas Goaziou Cc: Org-mode Nicolas Goaziou writes: > Hello, > > Robert Horn writes: > > As a rule of thumb, C-c C-c on a list will operate on every top level > items and C-c C-c on a item will operate on the item. You are considered > to be on a list when calling C-c C-c from affiliated keywords or from > the very beginning of the first line in the first item. Note that > element-wise navigation (like M-{ and M-}) behaves the same. > This is different than your initial response, and still needs to be documented. My major concern (and the bug that Bastien fixed) was that it was applying the whole list logic whenever the point was on the first *item* of the list. Restricting it to being different when on the first *character of the first item* is different, and at least allows the commands to be used on the first line. I still think it's poor user interface design. The impact when you go through the documentation for each command and add "... except when on the first character of the first item of the list, in which case the behavior is ...." may make this clear. The user has to add that into their thought processes when using lists. This constant side nag of "where am I on this line? which item am I on?" is an indication of a user interface problem. The other times that emacs and org-mode care about where you are on the line are situations where you are directly editing and changing the contents of the line. It feels natural to pay attention to the location on the line when editing the text. And, even then, the change is restricted to that location on the line. It is only when using a prefixed commands that the changes affect other locations. That's why I prefer using a different prefix to mean "whole list". That leaves all of the list related commands that affect the current item to be C-u prefixed. If you have a different prefix that means "whole list", you eliminate the "where is the point?" mental effort. It adds the ability to have that different prefix enable "whole list" when on any item in any location in the list. R Horn rjhorn@alum.mit.edu