From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: John Kitchin Subject: Re: exporting zotxt or orgref links to HTML and ODF Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2015 13:17:08 -0500 Message-ID: References: <878ugo8i60.fsf@gmx.us> <87bnlkqpiq.fsf@gmx.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42099) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YGAhQ-0004eX-CW for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 13:17:20 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YGAhM-0005jg-1c for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 13:17:16 -0500 Received: from mail-qg0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c04::234]:50798) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YGAhL-0005jR-PY for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 13:17:11 -0500 Received: by mail-qg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id z107so12935683qgd.11 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2015 10:17:11 -0800 (PST) In-reply-to: <87bnlkqpiq.fsf@gmx.us> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Rasmus Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org I have not found the link syntax too constraining. Simple links like the ones I use in org-ref are perfect for simple citation needs. It handles all different kinds of citations (cite, citet, textcite,...) and multiple citations. org-ref automates selection of keys and insertion via reftex or helm. They are all we need for the kind of scientific publication my group does. We have published six peer-reviewed publications so far with just these simple links. I do concede that if you use many "non-simple: features of biblatex, you are heading for trouble with links. You can probably just use raw LaTeX then. [[textcite:KEY]] is not required unless KEY has some particular characters like spaces or other link-breaking characters. textcite:KEY works just fine for me. I do agree that \textcite[pre][post]{KEY} is trickier and uglier to solve. I have only found this approach [[textcite:KEY][pre text::post text]] to work particularly well, and you have to parse the description in the export. I use :: as the divider, since it seems unlikely to be in either element. It takes a little more thought to automate insertion of these, but the link insertion machinery of org-mode will do it in org-ref. If you use descriptive links in org-mode, it collapses into just the description, which I don't like but live with. The newest org-ref has a minibuffer message feature that should show you a summary of the citation when your cursor is idle on that link though. I don't want to start a war over links vs dedicated element for citations. I just want to point out that links work really well for a large set of use cases, and other solutions are not likely to be as simple to use. My thoughts are biased of course since I have invested a lot of time and thought into org-ref, and I don't see the limitations you suggest in our daily work. If you send me some examples of what is not easy, maybe we can see if org-ref can do it. Rasmus writes: > Matt Price writes: > >> On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 8:30 AM, Rasmus wrote: >>> #+begin_rant >>> >>> The current state is a mess and not portable. E.g. there's at least two >>> Zotero projects, there's John Kitchin's code, there's ox-bibtex.el (whi= ch >>> IMO is not suitable for complicated citation requirements), plus everyo= ne >>> and their mother's have got custom citation links in their config via >>> custom org link types... >>> >>> /Proper/ citation support (not links) is, IMO, the last thing that is >>> missing for good academic publishing support. >>> >>> #+end_rant >> >> (I know about zotxt -- is there another zotero project?) > > This is the other one I had in mind: > > https://github.com/vspinu/zotelo > >> (b) I could start to recommend it to colleagues, as I'm itching to do. > > But the argument "it's easier/cleaner" seems to shatter when you get to > [[textcite:KEY]] compared to \textcite{KEY}... Even worse when you have > to have notes, e.g. \textcite[pre][post]{KEY}. > > =E2=80=94Rasmus -- Professor John Kitchin Doherty Hall A207F Department of Chemical Engineering Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213 412-268-7803 @johnkitchin http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu