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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1648411059; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=o2tHwq/cnYYB6kcQdSDP8175jQR1Hw/bsbWt9p2ccmY=; b=r49UcS4S3RAmylskd+0Zb1ycwAarNRHRX45jS1tTEMG1EmoZNYJ4sQXEUEkMP8KcdtfgpX L6G05tshqc8pv12I11KO5e1AYmU9vIfJusQbN/laQST4TYxvumw9B/420lac1DVd8JSYYD ARJJ31S0eLob7l77nVoRv4Ez94U7LVtekMThAnlOVq44ixJIxdvR/bltIYPHaRNx5cWqw5 nF+Vi8G4lFlCnMGJPuvq+mJWDVUnQPOfXI6IGpSOZUCA9cq3L9p2lV0/tabmJs6EXmBlrC CPjQ5ZKt3yqx/Wiui95QRr7lGb9BejjmF/x84/dH/Pglfbs8GQVKlXZ/m5YQsA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1648411059; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=LR33R3mDCVK6H2hM3scF0KLOmBuz0KA2hwtSzYIt85B0UOZfYhEnoysIazuklglkC68ySv DqF1Mcv4XjnY2oPuy4Fc3Usl890z5M/JDlBmNiBD1ELwGXAPpih/PbG8mt2d9zRgMtB66n BdNbag5BHEmOXVOQAAR3Y1hCGltyCh/HEqCl0U5C5Xi3cp2HOe3EFwdklG/Bcz8CArUAMn LomyrHbtoYXw/5Gj4Cgo9gjLFanWXJ4nQ7W+tI2l/mYnje+Gq+QNwT1W2UKDgKVC1toDCI 43OoYACkRxkyChz/3tWWYRvzYl39Qt3Qh50DaBJcqycpk/Z313cNiTHSLnqaPA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=WfSS+gxy; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=andrew.cmu.edu (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 5.34 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=WfSS+gxy; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=andrew.cmu.edu (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: E0E5836D8F X-Spam-Score: 5.34 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: zawzRjrnV4dK Max Nikulin writes: > On 21/03/2022 18:51, John Kitchin wrote: >> citenum and bibentry are the only two I am not sure have a CSL analog. > > I read your messages once more and I should say that I feel some disagreement of > this one (I removed most of it) and the earlier and longer one from Sun, 20 Mar > 2022 20:31:29 -0400 https://list.orgmode.org/m2sfrc149c.fsf@andrew.cmu.edu > > I admit that org-ref is carefully tuned to your workflow. I hope, it is possible > to left aside decomposition of org-cite into modules for some time. > > Let's assume org-cite with natbib backend for citations and org-ref for > cross-references. It seems, a couple of missed styles currently is not a problem > due to the defcustom for the mapping. > > Are there still any technical limitations that prevent getting in the exported > LaTeX file the same citation commands as for org-ref? If all one wants is LaTeX export, there are not technical limitations. That is not all people want in general though, they also want other exports, and that they are reasonably similar, or even possible. It is easy to get \citenum and \bibentry for LaTeX. I promise though, someone wants this or some other thing for HTML. Rather than rehash a lot of experiences, I really encourage you to try writing a processor that can support this. Or even, try modifying org-ref-cite to support it. Not as some thought experiment about what should be possible, but an actual experiment that is worked out. > In particular I am worrying concerning https://github.com/jkitchin/org-ref > README (and the same phrase from the earlier message): > >> org-cite does not meet my citation and technical document publishing needs, >> and it was not possible to integrate it into org-ref without compromising >> those. I have taken this out of the readme. I still agree with the sentiment, but my needs are not the same as others (for example, I include in my needs include ease of support and development, which is not a user need), and it is possible to meet some basic needs fully. > Does it refer to exported result or to convenience of working with citations? > Would it help if it were possible to choose style by its natbib command? > > I see that you do not like org-cite styles, but I can not figure out what are > the real blockers that prevent producing documents having the same > quality. If you spend enough time teaching people how to use these things, you might feel differently about this. It is so easy to just switch away to Endnote, Papers, Paperpile, Mendeley, Zotero, Overleaf, etc. I guess I am not on the prevailing side here though. -- Professor John Kitchin Doherty Hall A207F Department of Chemical Engineering Carnegie Mellon University Pittsburgh, PA 15213 412-268-7803 @johnkitchin http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu Pronouns: he/him/his