From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Matti De Craene Subject: Re: A shorter manual Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 20:43:56 +0200 Message-ID: References: <096F60B3-65ED-464E-8CDC-1041CA69B706@gmail.com> <4BD85AD3.9070807@ccbr.umn.edu> <87aasn1pa4.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1O7CH1-0005WE-AA for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:46:15 -0400 Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=59398 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O7CEt-0004EH-IK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:46:09 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O7CEp-0006f9-Qi for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:44:01 -0400 Received: from mail-ww0-f41.google.com ([74.125.82.41]:60745) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O7CEp-0006f3-JM for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 14:43:59 -0400 Received: by wwi18 with SMTP id 18so986214wwi.0 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2010 11:43:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87aasn1pa4.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Dan Davison Cc: emacs org-mode mailing list , Carsten Dominik > - 2.8 Drawers > - 3.2 Column width and alignment > - 3.3 The Spreadsheet (4 rather technical pages) > - 7.4 Property Inheritance and 7.5 Column View > (do beginners really need properties at all ??) I would agree on this list (except maybe drawers). If there is room for additional sections maybe: - include the org ref card as an appendix (which in itself offers a very good overview of org) - include some pointers into getting emacs for different OSes and getting started with emacs. If there would be an O=B4Reilly book on Org-mode this would be in the first chapter or so. For people who started using emacs because of org (like me) the current Introduction might still be too cryptic (?) -- Matti On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Dan Davison wrote= : > Erik Iverson writes: > >> Carsten Dominik wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> with the Org-mode manual moving toward 200 pages, =A0I am >>> starting to worry that people with stop in their tracks >>> when considering Org-mode, just because of the sheer size >>> of the manual. >>> >>> So I did a little experiment. =A0I took the manual and stripped >>> everything which could be considered advanced material, but >>> keeping all features and all basic commands and customizations. >>> >>> What remains are about 50 pages. =A0A document with the same >>> structure (even the same chapter numbers) as the manual. >>> I am wondering if it would be useful to have this as a beginners >>> document - or if the existence of this document would lead >>> to more confusion than relief. >>> >>> =A0 =A0 http://orgmode.org/orgguide.pdf >>> >>> I don't see this a an alternative for the manual - just >>> as an additional, rather static document, with little need for >>> updates. =A0The manual would continue to be the comprehensive >>> and constantly updated document. >>> >>> Comments are welcome. > > Hi Carsten, > > I think this would be a good thing to have. > > It would be good to have active HTML links to the relevant main manual > sections in PDF and HTML versions. (even if this is not encouraged by > texinfo format). > > I'm tempted to suggest going even a little further than you have done. > If you were to make it shorter, I would suggest removing the following > sections, and to replace removed sections with very short non-technical > advertisements for features that are covered in the main manual. > > - 2.8 Drawers > - 3.2 Column width and alignment > - 3.3 The Spreadsheet (4 rather technical pages) > - 7.4 Property Inheritance and 7.5 Column View > =A0(do beginners really need properties at all ??) > > Dan > >> >> I think it's a great idea. =A0The R project has something called "An >> Introduction to R" for beginners, separate from the complete manual. >> I think that as a beginner, and wondering how to break into learning a >> new package, that "reading the manual" has certain negative >> psychological connotations that "reading the intro document" does not, >> not the least of which is the length of full manual. >> >> And since knowing just the basics of org can be immensely beneficial, >> I think it's even more reason to have a basic intro document. >> >> --Erik >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Emacs-orgmode mailing list >> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. >> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org >> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode >