Let's TALK about it

Let's TALK about it

[Andrea Crotti]

I will probably go here http://www.pycon.it/
(what does it have to do with org-mode you might think).
Anyway I wanted to propose a talk on emacs and python programming
packages used to simplify the editing.

I would also like to include something on literate programming with
orgmode/babel, so I was wondering if you have any advices...

I've never done a presentation like this before, but in this case I
think an interactive session where I show things would be nicer than a
set of slides.

Are there any presentations around about the subject where I could give
a look?

Also the emacs+org-mode is a quite complicated world, I would like to
show all the best features without having to deal with elisp code or
having to explain too much...

What could be the "minimal" introduction needed before talking about
org-babel for a smart (but maybe not emacser) audience?

Re: Let's TALK about it

[Eric Schulte]

Hi Andrea,

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

[...]

>
> What could be the "minimal" introduction needed before talking about
> org-babel for a smart (but maybe not emacser) audience?
>

That's an excellent question, and I have no idea what the answer should
be.  The first step is certainly introducing Org-mode, maybe with a
focus on tables, and the export to html and LaTeX.  From there Org-babel
may best be described as the addition of active source code to Org-mode
documents.

I think Org-babel is most easily introduced through a couple of short
live demos hitting on the main points of functionality
- executing a source code block capturing the results in an org-mode buffer
- reading inputs from a table
- reading inputs from another source-code block
- tangling
- exporting an org file to html including soure-code block results
  and/or fontified code

Best of luck! -- Eric

>
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Re: Let's TALK about it

[Andrea Crotti]

"Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:

> Hi Andrea,
>
> That's an excellent question, and I have no idea what the answer should
> be.  The first step is certainly introducing Org-mode, maybe with a
> focus on tables, and the export to html and LaTeX.  From there Org-babel
> may best be described as the addition of active source code to Org-mode
> documents.
>
> I think Org-babel is most easily introduced through a couple of short
> live demos hitting on the main points of functionality
> - executing a source code block capturing the results in an org-mode buffer
> - reading inputs from a table
> - reading inputs from another source-code block
> - tangling
> - exporting an org file to html including soure-code block results
>   and/or fontified code
>
> Best of luck! -- Eric

Thanks a lot, now there are a couple of "problems":
- it's a python conference, I should be able to remain at least close to
  the topic
- the talks are "chosen" by the people who bought the ticket, so I
  should try to write it as inviting as possible.

The thing is that a tour of python-mode and all what's related for
productivity and org-mode/babel would be 2 different talks, so I maybe
also propose both of them...

But if I propose only org I don't think it will ever be accepted, if I
put them together maybe...

And if I'm doing both I should take a very long time to show everything
could be nice (most talks are 60 minutes if I'm not wrong).

Re: Let's TALK about it

[Thomas S. Dye]

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On Feb 25, 2010, at 5:29 AM, Eric Schulte wrote:

> Hi Andrea,
>
> Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>>
>> What could be the "minimal" introduction needed before talking about
>> org-babel for a smart (but maybe not emacser) audience?
>>
>
> That's an excellent question, and I have no idea what the answer  
> should
> be.  The first step is certainly introducing Org-mode, maybe with a
> focus on tables, and the export to html and LaTeX.  From there Org- 
> babel
> may best be described as the addition of active source code to Org- 
> mode
> documents.
>
> I think Org-babel is most easily introduced through a couple of short
> live demos hitting on the main points of functionality
> - executing a source code block capturing the results in an org-mode  
> buffer
> - reading inputs from a table
> - reading inputs from another source-code block
> - tangling
> - exporting an org file to html including soure-code block results
>  and/or fontified code
>
> Best of luck! -- Eric
>

Hi Andrea,

One attempt at a "minimal" introduction is:

http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/intro.php

I'd be interested to see your presentation.  Perhaps you could send a  
link to the list for those of us unfortunately not able to travel to  
Florence.

All the best,
Tom


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Re: Re: Let's TALK about it

[Eric Schulte]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> Il giorno 25/feb/2010, alle ore 17.55, Eric Schulte ha scritto:
>
>> I see,
>> 
>> I think a point could be made for advertising Org-mode + babel as a
>> suite for "Reproducible Research with Python" or "Literate Programming
>> in Python".  Framing the talk in that manner could allow you to cut
>> straight to the meat of Org-mode/babel skipping over python-mode --
>> which hopefully won't leave anyone behind as they've all seen editor
>> support for python.  Then as long as the code your execute/demonstrate
>> is python-code I think the relevance would be clear.
>> 
>> But please don't let me usurp your talk or the conference attendees
>> time :)
>> 
>> Best -- Eric
>> 
>
> Hei Eric thanks,
> you didn't CC to the list on purpose?

Nope, I had intended to CC the list.  I am CC'ing the list now.

>
> Anyway "Literate programming in Python" sounds nice in my opinion.
> The problem is that the people attending are mostly working, not doing
> research, so I'm not sure that would be so interesting (at least from
> the title IT IS interesting).
>

fair enough, in an industry environment (especially when working as part
of a group) I can see how writing your code from inside of an Org-mode
file is certainly not an option.

>
> And also python mode is nothing so strange, BUT there are a few
> packages that are really great and could improve dramatically the
> productivity (and which are not so immediate to configure).
>
> So I don't know, I think I somehow should include both things...

So, I hope it goes well, and I'd second Tom's point that if you do end
up working Org-mode/babel into your talk we'd love to see a video and/or
hear how it was received.

Re: Let's TALK about it

[Andrea Crotti]

My talk has been accepted :)
So now I really have to prepare something!

I thought that for showing the power of org-mode and babel I could use
something I already have

http://github.com/AndreaCrotti/my-project-euler/blob/master/euler.org
(click on raw to see the code)

It's a summary of which problems I've solved or I want to solve.
Below there are elisp functions that are called inside the table, and
the table is updated smartly looking for every file with a particular
extension in the directories of the problems.

Then I was thinking to remove the table and I started to use a babel
approach, but I think both approaches could be very interesting.

Those snippets of code that only returns a result are a nice example to
use with babel (I think).

Could be a good idea?
I'm also going to show something from python-mode/yasnippet because in
the end the title of the talk is
"Light of speed python programming with emacs"
So I have to stay close to it :D

Re: Let's TALK about it

[Andrea Crotti]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> My talk has been accepted :)
> So now I really have to prepare something!
>
> I thought that for showing the power of org-mode and babel I could use
> something I already have
>

No news?
Here I'm also putting some slides, they should just contains list of
things.
I'm doing them in Beamer, it could be a good way to show another usage
of org-mode.

But actually I don't know if it's a good thing, after all they're just a
few slides so it might be better to make something more graphically
nice, what do you think?

For the interactive part, would be better to show different things in
separate examples or all of them in a more complex file?

What about some sort of unit testing with tables/formulas/org-babel all
together?

Could be nice to generate a table with some checks that pass only if we
get some results from the code which is automatically executed, what do
you think?

Re: Let's TALK about it

[Andrea Crotti]

"Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:
> So, I hope it goes well, and I'd second Tom's point that if you do end
> up working Org-mode/babel into your talk we'd love to see a video and/or
> hear how it was received.

Ok finally I did the talk...
Unfortunately it had to be in italian and I have no video yet, BUT
I've set up an emacs configuration with org-mode for the talk which now
I've extended quite a lot
http://github.com/AndreaCrotti/Emacs-configuration

you might be interested to give it a look.

I want to do something very generic that everyone can use, setting its
own private variables somewhere else (for example in custom.el).


The slides I've used are in the file "slides.org", they're not many
because the talk had to be mainly interactive, but I've finally really
appreciated the org-beamer stuff, great job really!

Thanks for the help

Re: Re: Let's TALK about it

[Eric Schulte]

Andrea Crotti <andrea.crotti.0@gmail.com> writes:

> "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com> writes:
>> So, I hope it goes well, and I'd second Tom's point that if you do end
>> up working Org-mode/babel into your talk we'd love to see a video and/or
>> hear how it was received.
>
> Ok finally I did the talk...

That's great

> 
> Unfortunately it had to be in italian and I have no video yet, BUT
> I've set up an emacs configuration with org-mode for the talk which
> now I've extended quite a lot
> http://github.com/AndreaCrotti/Emacs-configuration
>
> you might be interested to give it a look.
>
> I want to do something very generic that everyone can use, setting its
> own private variables somewhere else (for example in custom.el).
>

One option for placing personal configuration into public config files
is to use org-babel and to place the personal variables *outside* of
emacs-lisp code blocks in tables or external lists.  For example with
recent versions of org-babel the following

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
#+tblname: configuration-variables
| parameter   | value              |
|-------------+--------------------|
| script-path | ~/.emacs.d/scripts |

#+begin_src emacs-lisp :var config=configuration-variables[2,1]
  (message "script dir is %s" config)
#+end_src
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

will tangle to

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(let ((config (quote "~/.emacs.d/scripts")))
(message "script dir is %s" config)
)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Cheers -- Eric

>
>
> The slides I've used are in the file "slides.org", they're not many
> because the talk had to be mainly interactive, but I've finally really
> appreciated the org-beamer stuff, great job really!
>
> Thanks for the help
>
>
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> Please use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
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