From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id qH4nEa4172AsxwAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:06:22 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id kN0nC64172AoagAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:06:22 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24105232DB for ; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:06:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:47216 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m3kD4-0005NT-PY for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 15:06:18 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45950) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m3kCS-0005NH-Nd for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 15:05:40 -0400 Received: from basilikum.nobis-admin.de ([89.238.71.130]:44554) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1m3kCP-0007U8-3G for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 15:05:40 -0400 From: Stefan Nobis DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=snobis.de; s=default; t=1626289533; bh=J1JXK0SE+9scYHfDFRUq15+zwqdUciBCkBer9Ui+ygM=; h=From:To:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=kbBSE9DEOHKUtgyrxiWQspn14XiVMLfzG2bkDxMDkEPT2wcfVtZCAn11epB67QfVr R/s2pLCJQshutZVjL62HdyjA7UCd+llne97v82h2qMxaozjUmny8g1I8S9NYE6vinK t0v8BuAkik/VgTZxC0LfoR6WSETkaf+bBq+Flx68= To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: org-mode export to (latex) PDF References: <5A0DCCA5-7B49-46CC-BD49-B5F0D46DA5B8@traduction-libre.org> <87pmvq8ef2.fsf@posteo.net> Mail-Followup-To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:05:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Maxim Nikulin's message of "Thu, 15 Jul 2021 00:30:15 +0700") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=89.238.71.130; envelope-from=stefan-ml@snobis.de; helo=basilikum.nobis-admin.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1626289582; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=J1JXK0SE+9scYHfDFRUq15+zwqdUciBCkBer9Ui+ygM=; b=QliwNizh2s/JCRtS/FWQHHvqum/VLdjwNK/lv/vOEtkX9RzssG1IAnswIWSu82RbqXZ7Mo OBskgVI4G/H7k9OLvqVtATKjc1yDyLwvAaGASYteKnSAG+kyTCuhrl2+R8Bh+P+vM8grDK ciP+iJJBI70O4Dz4h4wy19eRIKIf2cvEl7/uw80gEFB5S/go6Ff5QultgJEfnkuhUSNBsv CdaZfVoHBPG9YvRl51yURT9/njxmYd4I0EoM+rRgJmR7nlR/vYq9/brejszVxjLvCPIJJK fchwbDm+Ggd4xUS+u5RSeIq82ws2fVztlLYZauw+EWf9/3Wndxd4ntFxF39vUg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1626289582; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=bTIQzcBHNtRr71WTO737oceROKfdIDnbNy3RceSoEF/Ss31rikDKrFQPJCa9yBIB70DvtQ 1U5mCHL0ZuEZbxiPStVRtx3dnTz6xp1G+uWjXbJph4uqE7qESowyEwHPxum1xmCqpThs2l SzZLa9gqrqnCJEmY0wPlz8meA4yHFvNAPmlRBV7eObuEYik2faGPHbdq5N7IAeWM+ApLfj Q1KqvXO5ke3BR7h8YsE7AJmeyahpFfLIArC4T/ks1h4epVp1nkivnsm1MUeZNAMaGR07io G3mzm6g49NlhKUIdLHz/DKIyZtMesl712C8Sw6+LPRfAZ/qtFQGtr/z/IUO3Sw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=snobis.de header.s=default header.b=kbBSE9DE; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=snobis.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.10 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=snobis.de header.s=default header.b=kbBSE9DE; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=snobis.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 24105232DB X-Spam-Score: -3.10 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: lLUp3zWULkER Maxim Nikulin writes: > There are cm-super fonts for at least of 15 years. There are many tradeoffs in many aspects. No single font pleases everyone. So you want to say: Your requirements are more important/common/stylish/whatever that the requirements of other people? I do need only latin characters and math (so Latin Modern would suffice), but still I use different fonts from time to time (like Libertine, Palatino and others) - and I also mix different fonts (not all font families provide serif and sans serif and monospace glyphs). And due to the history of TeX and the structure of font files, there is no single command to set up all required information to switch all font families with one command. Usually up to 3-4 command are required (sometimes more for more advanced requirements) are needed to change most relevant font information. Frankly, I'm completely clueless why this should be a problem. Yes, it may be unfortunate that not all fonts available support all Unicode glyphs ever invented. But on the other hand: Most of the free fonts are created by people in their free time and it takes VAST amounts of time and talent to create nice looking fonts. I appreciate the many fonts that creative people created to be used for free. So if all I have to do to use this massive gift is drop a couple of commands in some or all my documents, I do not complain - I'm grateful. I understand that it sometimes sucks to be forced to use tools that are created with a massive US centric world view, that not only focuses on latin characters, but even only respcect ASCII (e.g. even today quite some systems have problems with german umlauts). But try to get over it: At least in the case of Emacs, Org, and LaTeX it is possible and in most cases quite easy to overcome the restrictions that the default settings may impose. [unicode-math] > Thank you for the hint. Do you think Org should use it by default? > Are there any caveats? Yes, unicode-math should be seen as must have for lualatex and xelatex (if math is used). As far as I know there are no downsides and it should be part of the default packages (but only for lualatex and xelatex, not for pdflatex). > If LuaTeX and XeLaTeX handles Unicode better, is it possible to make > any of them the default option and to leave pdflatex as a fallback? That is possible today and you can easily change the LaTeX engine via global options in your Emacs init.el or via local settings inside Org documents. > Is it possible to detect lualatex and xelatex in runtime? At runtime of the LaTeX engine, so execute LaTeX commands depending on the engine that processes the document containing these commands? Yes, that is possible. The LaTeX package iftex provides macros to execute commands based on the running engine (see https://www.ctan.org/pkg/iftex?lang=en). > Should some packages for lualatex and xelatex be added to default > list to minimize user problems and at the same time keeping > configuration safe? (unicode-math, etc.) Maybe. I'm currently myself struggling a little bit with a flexible configuration, that can be used with many different kind of documents (short notes, larger reports, beamer presentations) and provides all the extras I like to use. There is no clear best package list for every use case (in some cases unnecessary loaded packages only waste time, in other cases, especially with some individual set of package options, there might be errors in some scenario or another). > Is it possible to provide reasonable defaults for fonts? I do not think so. You want Cyrillic. But what about Japanese, Chinese, Devanagari, Tamil, Arabic etc? I doubt that there exists a single font that supports all these scripts satisfactorily. Despite the existence of the Unicode encoding(s), the glyphs and font designs are still quite complex and demanding even for a single script. But maybe we could assemble a list of good (enough) fonts for different languages/scripts and provide a default setup in Org for LaTeX export, that sets a proper font for the chosen document language? -- Until the next mail..., Stefan.