From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id IGvkMCnhmWP8CwEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 15:43:53 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id 6LihMCnhmWPbMgAAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 15:43:53 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 525D42EFF5 for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 15:43:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5Srh-0006z3-BA; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:36:09 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5SrS-0006wv-6r for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:55 -0500 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5SrO-0005XP-Ul; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:53 -0500 Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 272678078F; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 64CD580723; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:34 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1671028534; bh=P2Z6TSz8LyNM3DixZFbYamYX4fXNuX1vB+9jB3KOs3A=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=YyxtmuuxALBl5WnbYVzi/qat/AC+so2R2IPTn0xvvImimR44E2AE7O6bFp/hpu6UD HQ+9d/D3nxEhQfeAVWfAcB9JtukKWg2opEvVYlaArWa+TZKSuNic3OZ/Corjm0FlAj zQAkIxsaLLMWq8lTT0z+9ZEbaHxjIaTkfvO08SERt9VON97Mote8zWxUmy+URfRVwx Ntfw370bimD/hQCDBsTUxoG9EotbehI9vsxZQx/+eojkCGFCmtiX3tt/Wrv6CcxOwn qAR8D8IcFJqjfmpGQfXXH4OviUaJKM0cdo68uJlG73xv57xnlbzYa00nmwnOT6K14P uVLxNfUAH0GMA== Received: from pastel (unknown [45.72.193.52]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 21648120409; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:34 -0500 (EST) From: Stefan Monnier To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: Eli Zaretskii , dsmasterson@gmail.com, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Wed, 14 Dec 2022 13:37:07 +0000") Message-ID: References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> <83359innsp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmcmt8cc.fsf@localhost> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:35:32 -0500 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1671029033; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=LLCrlE7bGpfW9lQOP9fUuGT1iVHP7OTLbPPDjnc3sW8=; b=apddqZSw99TnJgi4clQC3bn8aD7uL5pA6N1yAndSZPMxKmd6oHvwI9LJrD0y57v2a6iwCA E64WZCOglNu5ZnHT7kOHO6bb5xP5qFgco72N9Br1ZHaglVHtKfZ70oGtmA+KR/F5eN0zTC XhXAnraKSNOvzB14tVbnGYFSs0PS4QgmhEm+4/d+YWt5heVW+qGhP+tVA7uuA72HQ0lj0P v6PN7w1a7n6oNun5ZMBRLQzslaaPn4COqHRcneDz2SDgzUQZIh2/aqKA/mY5NjvEwZyvPK EaFZslUf8CW30m8I+jxaW7X8C+0KkFSizd7tQ1LXWLmrd+k3z8WXi7id0xfYkg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=iro.umontreal.ca header.s=mail header.b=Yyxtmuux; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=iro.umontreal.ca ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1671029033; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=N6lzel4rUvS2C2bju5Z5QBCGDnSI4MCb7NHQE0FCI/bawCCxvYwB5Nk6Uyie20tzG4eNdk PBi+wBtjnOepfCTH2Z9NT87rHpUN3VPwtvTDff5e28DOuXRVH5Q31b5FvoMRHS9wh4+fPw 0jObXo3mR3AP4RHVLgJns52VmR/KmLpABq1f/5KNHAIzwx2iaWCfUmuYMk4JWlSLoFAUid Tir8BsU/RTpiaL+Vb/vtPtbXvJHfWky8Md41tQZcxRyVCQHVTF3YQ2LjgydOUtuBk21ydI gnbt2A6oHpH6TEvm7NU5Y6JC2xgMCkgmUcwPChdYO7zMnnlMti21thdb1YIrVA== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -8.44 X-Spam-Score: -8.44 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 525D42EFF5 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=iro.umontreal.ca header.s=mail header.b=Yyxtmuux; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=iro.umontreal.ca X-TUID: EedLQVKkCit8 > similar issues with several important Org components (ol-* and ob-*). In > particular, ob-*.el packages affect Org simply by defining function > symbols with specific name patters (by ob-core.el design). > Achieving no side effects is difficult in practice. That's true. It can be a balancing act. > Also, note that side effects are not uncommon in Elisp packages. > Including, built-ins, like rect.el. > dired+ comes to mind among popular third-party packages. Most of them are plain bugs, tho (typically fixed by introducing an autoloaded minor-mode, so the package is activated by enabling the minor mode rather than by `require`ing the package). > Like I said in another message that I sent just before receiving yours > my conclusion came from the fact that hitting 'C-h v' with the cursor > on 'org-goto-interface' provided nothing. It was the first time this > ever happened to me. I did try to explicitly enter the variable's > name by entering 'org-goto', which (like 'org-go') is not > enough: it is completed to 'org--goto'. AFAICT this is a missing feature: we obey `help-enable-autoload` in `describe-function` but we fail to do the same autoloading dance in `describe-variable`. Stefan