From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id IJXrBPMcN2N6SQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:44:35 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id gJ3tA/McN2N0ggEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:44:35 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD99921653 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 18:44:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37986 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oeJ7p-0002Rc-Gy for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 12:44:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53440) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oeJ74-0002RE-2H for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 12:43:46 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-x22a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::22a]:43702) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oeJ72-0004u9-Am for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 12:43:45 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-x22a.google.com with SMTP id b6so5373099ljr.10 for ; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 09:43:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=HzrYB84uKVX3GmG1Y5DS7laH07pj9K3hxDJkgAwYhGY=; b=ifFmgEfUiv56KeFOFMFAmN4XA+3J8cT+9wtlo1fAY99bmAsEbjwcyaxF2yc/Rhr1yR 3qIZz6gWGo+VGBW7SaDyyQO9O8PzALbJBNvOsRmQpx7o7YZGR5HLRgAB/QoVQ31amCb9 5TgXyHa9ZzekSnEkpueVSKiyqtNVN3+nVT3wUS8qsXF0cntSI1BCEWwtl4QG/YA+Mrfy 5IFvoRk1ObCsC6yy/O3Rk1y4J+NtPr1BMb2Bd5HZkU4gK0kT15MT951xxA7AyI4K9uR4 jwy+9ODaQ1buHVKK+gyHUTYib+PbDAKE6B8avwoSDPWTCoJTPzDiQ1oRPP8YpPZI7ABZ Libg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date; bh=HzrYB84uKVX3GmG1Y5DS7laH07pj9K3hxDJkgAwYhGY=; b=2vugI+ROcqUoqwUsKK8G+g//kaVyBxad7tForiJyxNVrQqJeSNKodNZkjv0OuP4IiK ZUsE5HY0Rs0ih+iqrhE1FbnDH1fykaJCj0RQbkew5xvXJs5BJ9Fca2gKo9K5dGS7UgIU XQ0CmMLlxfHIMsbTEhN/++hrbr/xXC2okKPlPgCrDMmPj9sJeazVsUf8d1F8wrdPu7ag UUFz3nivEx+96cuOWt3gNmpEBRGWPkCVU/eNzVMNgyvuvkYrCVXUFPtuURD18NAvqtWG jPwXuBYs3Gw0fP44IajcbbK5l/fdWP5/653aq8DUUSw+tLd5pApHgSXoF4w+e3o16opD Nb/g== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1tO7am2LxAHFkdzEwetIQQO+QnCQNpsaeJJYeWSYZmSRvsNVZo sg93YKNS5oWwaKfAr6eOE5s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM6nKNPiYBneeQjqR9vsJUvk7xLYhF/9YNjYkxdJwL5jX4gpYUH845J01tWRmbRoY30tT6rnCA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:198a:b0:26c:27a:c504 with SMTP id bx10-20020a05651c198a00b0026c027ac504mr3125909ljb.443.1664556222687; Fri, 30 Sep 2022 09:43:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.101] (nat-0-0.nsk.sibset.net. [5.44.169.188]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id bi9-20020a0565120e8900b00497a2815d8dsm340888lfb.195.2022.09.30.09.43.41 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 30 Sep 2022 09:43:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2022 23:43:41 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.11.0 Subject: Re: Org mode export accessibility Content-Language: en-US To: "T.V Raman" Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <87a6b8pbhg.fsf@posteo.net> <875ykwvmz7.fsf@posteo.net> <871qvioquw.fsf@gmail.com> <87czew3w5l.fsf@localhost> <87v8sn3obd.fsf@gmail.com> <87czevr9cn.fsf@posteo.net> <878rpj3dbq.fsf@localhost> <25273.49476.833965.837697@google.com> <87czeq7fjo.fsf@localhost> <25286.61631.305598.944699@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <25398.61226.614726.254480@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> From: Max Nikulin In-Reply-To: <25398.61226.614726.254480@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::22a; envelope-from=manikulin@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x22a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -26 X-Spam_score: -2.7 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.583, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1664556274; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=HzrYB84uKVX3GmG1Y5DS7laH07pj9K3hxDJkgAwYhGY=; b=DMgy8yzBOwJp5mLo5Yq3vibpE25T6TC45Vxn+JRT0ps5/KNEwKs+dKnTxjy8+KS4NUli/V YX/NPDzeNMBMfXlEjm7eI/Kq0dKYh5CaNUozzv1h2LUX1fcuWSNvRhoLn41y2auAp1d0pE IuF5WMrKfQPBQJUXqkk0RREQy59s+J3/ZMImVK/MjqG6h9V0kfldjFayY7o4Lz7NJy+0Dr NTCH688PYBFR098HPGKsCFPWq2XyoLa6DOPCZ/zrQ1MkoHb8+oKCmQhPhL+qwf5SwnM50m v3vnVLL5EckEERb7cYkB+B3GzShODy9l6epRO2LGxxZgeL+c8DaWeHPjPTZx+A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1664556274; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=EWTPdG8yrlD7nn0SWEXv9AyC85BhoCP6KeKWjAkl7DfJeB904C3/WbAkkOYGYUgZREmZlF npX1xcGym1X5JrpRKS4mgENeRRu0alu53YLAUdLX04Th8wTTuMcByQt9ymWwd06eOxQqg6 brG7dT6XoXD0l0qwj3ZjChimHmW9yuCZBEVD5A1BPckBHqbg9PwfwAH8JgKNagNlOOXApm Tg5SnKXM1aMuUeXiCyTk2uynjL7a/stxvnDi6QH1cEH2/mKqsxdNiHd9kKviCTO5s39g/U Ge8QzZa64phMUizEX6a6syOC0qwLPrVFsnKOxlrqaIRWsxO5NEnGSQ5uDhaFUg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=ifFmgEfU; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 6.36 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=ifFmgEfU; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: AD99921653 X-Spam-Score: 6.36 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: /4oBArc30LrY On 30/09/2022 20:29, T.V Raman wrote: > > 9. Note that this is not the end of the trail; for such exports to > make a difference to the end-user, user-facing tools still need to > know "how" to leverage these facilities. Do you mean that there are no tools yet that may take advantage of math expressions embedded into PDF as LaTeX source markup? I am just trying to figure out current state of affairs. I suppose, it is unlikely that someone from Org mailing list subscribers is ready to invest significant amount of time into development of LaTeX packages. However if there were ready to use and safe packages improving accessibility then changing export templates would be more real goal. In the meanwhile I have realized that \usepackage{mmap} has a little use in isolation. Fractions, indices, etc. are lost. Maybe some other packages should be loaded to provide more informative text equivalent for math. Some details concerning what I have tried is below. Original LaTeX expression: Text \[ \int_{\alpha}^{\beta} \frac{dx}{x^2 + \varepsilon} \] pdftotext -layout output for \usepackage{mmap}: Text \int \beta dx \alpha x2 + \varepsilon end of output pdftotext output for \usepackage{cmap} and \usepackage[noTeX]{mmap}: Text ∫︁ 𝛽 𝑑𝑥 𝛼 𝑥2 + 𝜀 end of output pdftotext output when neither cmap nor mmap is loaded: Text Z β dx α x2 + ε end of output For this dumb example effect of mmap is hardly noticeable. Integral symbol is not replaced by "Z", but it is hard to guess sub- and superscripts and presence of the \frac command. Without "-layout" order of symbols is mostly preserved, but structure is lost Text ∫︁ 𝛽 𝛼 𝑑𝑥 𝑥2 + 𝜀