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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1624263232; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=/6EicBnRfIhqQIlyAXYGdOjqTvOI/e/hiPNGZbHWTOc=; b=YQP4D3Y32jweTjm42xT6s/SvIovvB0PVT3VCdC7l2Lu2F5rAhV9TJSJCzkfjBEcxDaFwaj h5tT7xyGf/mCv0Jw7HwICO4S4gSLIkECMkzTo9pi0BsxT7z7nIe541v2mCzUdSxq76a1JM s5hx95cjsrlv1vTz8lZBQ0Gc0zEPdXDN0DkZkfETlNpNw6j+i/swlJyjpySn9RAbxnQvXu TyvxDNkCZwVf67UG46/RvXx8QfTChib8YZDMwGBDjZqDu9uTyIcFJOcQKfwNtqlO9/9+TR CiREj/+9xlJqzl1iPgTiFvaI+ZqZwJ4sQLeCTrLs+AYdXRfS7HazU+p2pw2Peg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1624263232; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=CczxmemwzACn38yBLnvz29NiCDxzbKoF9ev6JKYmMVr5MkVCgu33FetrBzw/cCzsI7Y/Oc w79nfzkhEhV31FB4zD8WRzxO8tK6Uut2+e50zNcMaZrJP8dN6yjuCfg4G8KiZHfxqMYu52 lTLzKRGKYFr4zHe5j1rQGznc21BD/QjzeLhC5XMMw5liDWKOUt9CcSNsYfor7FiAHtJmzj KosfU3A7igdbzkNWj8N9zpDaP05w/XJ8oT+Vl4pWVDeZVw8S5eSA1nR/IJ4xj/hyCd63PE KE4vD8Fv5dZHu4jK1ogrUy4fK8spUQw92Qpw+xb9VfUbqFgJ81iMLgHiFBqGGg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=mailbox.org header.s=mail20150812 header.b="GfE6p2/z"; dkim=pass header.d=mailbox.org header.s=mail20150812 header.b=OffFglrN; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=mailbox.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=mailbox.org header.s=mail20150812 header.b="GfE6p2/z"; dkim=pass header.d=mailbox.org header.s=mail20150812 header.b=OffFglrN; dmarc=pass (policy=reject) header.from=mailbox.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6D5BA1B264 X-Spam-Score: -3.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: xDazjLOJrc84 Am 20.06.2021 um 09:41 schrieb Nicolas Goaziou: > Hello, > > "Bruce D'Arcus" writes: > >> On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:45 AM Denis Maier wrote: > >>> * Note style input (=semantically strict input) >>> >>> "A quotation ending with a period." [cite: @hoel-71-whole] >>> >>> "A quotation ending without punctuation". [cite: @hoel-71-whole] >>> >>> As the input preserves the location of punctuation in the original >>> material, I'd say it should be much easier to deal with this. We >>> don't have to add information which isn't in the input, but rather >>> we'll just have to move any punctuation to after the citation >>> object. Maybe I'm missing something, but to me this looks like >>> a much simpler operation than going in the opposite direction. > > This cannot be. [...] > > As another, imperfect, workaround, I submit the following idea for > consideration: > > "A quotation ending without punctuation" [cite: @hoel-71-whole]. > "A quotation ending with a period"[cite: @hoel-71-whole]. > > IOW, the presence or absence of a space before the citation determines, > according to a note rule, if the punctuation should go inside or outside > the quotation. When processing non-note citations, we just need to > ensure there is at least a space after the previous element, which is > less "dangerous" than removing punctuation. Yes, I guess we should be safe here. I can't think of a case where you wouldn't want a space before a citation. > > I find it a bit too subtle, and so error-prone, but so is punctuation > anyway. > > WDYT? Not a bad approach. Using a space for this is perhaps too subtle as you say. Also, the question is which one should be the default. I'd actually suggest to turn it around: "A quotation ending without punctuation"[cite: @hoel-71-whole]. "A quotation ending with a period" [cite: @hoel-71-whole]. Reason for this: People who don't care for this distinction---either because they use en-us only, or because they never switch from in-text to notes styles---will probably prefer to have a space between quotation and citation (in input and output). On the other hand, this here feels also a bit odd: "A quotation ending without punctuation"[cite: @hoel-71-whole]. In your example the rule would simply be that punctuation cannot jump across spaces. What about some sort of escaping for punctuation that should stay outside the quotation marks? "A quotation ending without punctuation" [cite: @hoel-71-whole]\. But, of course, that's imperfect as well. Don't know which option is less odd. Denis