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[85.212.113.60]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 10-20020a170906210a00b007c0f2d051f4sm16513783ejt.203.2023.01.19.09.31.52 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 19 Jan 2023 09:31:52 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------IwLnVlJFCqAk50FNRKbSaqjq" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2023 18:31:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.6.1 Subject: Re: Make org-paste-subtree more predictable and useful To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <87r0vs8e02.fsf@localhost> <2eebe03e-fda5-f879-2643-2c9a146dd23e@gmail.com> <87k01i6ept.fsf@localhost> Content-Language: de-DE From: Philipp Kiefer In-Reply-To: <87k01i6ept.fsf@localhost> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62f; envelope-from=phil.kiefer@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x62f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -21 X-Spam_score: -2.2 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.094, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1674149599; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=MXu3+0tq3p1mixdRaG6Mpnes58jkF4Aqj3YVKrzAizI=; b=qplx+7ICpoyhqE35ozEejwzFATUoBNubgMv82EWsTGh5ftpiIohPYpM7sj4LhTRfrqvUnl tszKYUQUseNGxwfCJP18ImjJPkunXfTxfy/DymbwCWoj1cUvYPHIR2ZfLGgsZFwn8NVU3h XgPqwa/ONNgSSjJdptG5tYxgydnyRbwksCZP0QXh9hnjEIgflkZfk1bb6aJ3qxxdjzdSB+ dTkNja1t26uxMmkMdLWWskm2zZVj+WpWMSyccJIQJODxgEjJoJuwOr+Z87B39RYfJsJ6M1 neXMyBq9Rz12feCbKHsPPH6fLLSi22rjbF2wNBSaR6Zb4XwrUuTZO8lLVS5IKw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=kmkYvyrk; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1674149599; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=m4HF80CH67q6QNIlxuI7kvxUZ+c4blJ1DbaOlvgBYQPa7FjXcO9H9cagsxiumusAgYX5K/ J1d/fk+Z5YtU5dLXm3TZxWV02YXMUMf+6gXxgD7Qz9O+1pgPg1SE7kz7xBPQMLsM1iJSh5 JZ3uJAy5EgSeGzy7YEgHoKRDZVF39sTFYweQZYHH8CorOaQ2tnLX8tceu8L9lFnYI63w4X OJUUfw+1ZcpxFFoga0hMO6ZO8T0iAAVAb3VMEMiayGMJKUrGBeE93t9KKwftJYj4NbglNW VYMz+DiHhEoyQqH/xUeVzRSb2FMidwrAWLFdDytOjxVusKU+kZsv9nP1s/QYmw== X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.29 X-Spam-Score: -6.29 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6C4731FE4D Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=kmkYvyrk; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-TUID: 7CpB/qyCyQwj This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------IwLnVlJFCqAk50FNRKbSaqjq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've uploaded two screencasts to illustrate the issues described in my last message: 1. Org Mode-paste subtree low-level item swallowed: https://imgur.com/a/CZ5lDaH . This relates to what I assume the passage from the manual is trying to say should not happen: "makes sure that the subtree remains an independent subtree and does not swallow low level entries." 2. Org Mode-paste subtree on empty heading glitch: https://imgur.com/a/AT5pDj6 . See my last message. Further, you suggest I use C-S- to demote the subtree after pasting it at the same level as the subtree at point. But what if I used a numerical prefix argument to copy or cut several subtrees, maybe 5 or 10? Not very convenient at all to demote them all by hand... I still hold that pasting headings / subtress either at the same level or at the child level of the target heading is part of the bread and butter of outline editing and should be as straightforward as possible. I'm rather sure the current numeric prefixes of org-paste-subtree to select a distinct level at which to paste are needed / used much less frequently than a "paste at child level" prefix (maybe C-u C-u?) would be if it was implemented. Best Philipp On 19.01.2023 10:44, Ihor Radchenko wrote: > Philipp Kiefer writes: > >> Thanks for addressing my concern, Ihor. >> >> So I can force same-level yank by navigating to the beginning of the >> current headline before calling org-paste-subtree, I see. However, I >> still do not see a way to force it to paste one level below the current >> headline, i. e. to add the trees on the clipboard as child-subtrees or >> the current heading. >> >> My best bet currently is probably to create a blank child heading, add >> some text (there seems to be a glitch turning the blank heading into an >> empty line when pasting with point on the blank dummy heading when it >> has no text), go back to the beginning of the line, then paste the >> subtrees at the level of the dummy heading, navigate back to the dummy >> heading and delete it. I'd really rather not have to do all that to >> achieve my simple goal of pasting subtrees at child level. > Just paste the subtree and press C-S- to demote it immediately. > It would not save you many keystrokes if there was yet another prefix > argument. > >> As for the claim that the current procedure "makes sure that the subtree >> remains an independent subtree and does not swallow low level entries.", >> either I don't understand it or it isn't true. If I have a level 2 >> heading below which is a level 5 heading and I paste subtrees with point >> on the level 2 heading, the level 5 heading is subsumed under the last >> subtree yanked from the clipboard in all cases. > Sorry, but I cannot reproduce. > Could you please provide detailed instructions about what you did? > --------------IwLnVlJFCqAk50FNRKbSaqjq Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I've uploaded two screencasts to illustrate the issues described in my last message:

1. Org Mode-paste subtree low-level item swallowed: https://imgur.com/a/CZ5lDaH . This relates to what I assume the passage from the manual is trying to say should not happen: 

"makes sure that the subtree 
remains an independent subtree and does not swallow low level entries."

2. Org Mode-paste subtree on empty heading glitch: https://imgur.com/a/AT5pDj6 . See my last message.

Further, you suggest I use C-S-<right> to demote the subtree after pasting it at the same level as the subtree at point. But what if I used a numerical prefix argument to copy or cut several subtrees, maybe 5 or 10? Not very convenient at all to demote them all by hand...

I still hold that pasting headings / subtress either at the same level or at the child level of the target heading is part of the bread and butter of outline editing and should be as straightforward as possible. I'm rather sure the current numeric prefixes of org-paste-subtree to select a distinct level at which to paste are needed / used much less frequently than a "paste at child level" prefix (maybe C-u C-u?) would be if it was implemented.

Best

Philipp


On 19.01.2023 10:44, Ihor Radchenko wrote:
Philipp Kiefer <phil.kiefer@gmail.com> writes:


Thanks for addressing my concern, Ihor.

So I can force same-level yank by navigating to the beginning of the 
current headline before calling org-paste-subtree, I see. However, I 
still do not see a way to force it to paste one level below the current 
headline, i. e. to add the trees on the clipboard as child-subtrees or 
the current heading.

My best bet currently is probably to create a blank child heading, add 
some text (there seems to be a glitch turning the blank heading into an 
empty line when pasting with point on the blank dummy heading when it 
has no text), go back to the beginning of the line, then paste the 
subtrees at the level of the dummy heading, navigate back to the dummy 
heading and delete it. I'd really rather not have to do all that to 
achieve my simple goal of pasting subtrees at child level.

Just paste the subtree and press C-S-<right> to demote it immediately.
It would not save you many keystrokes if there was yet another prefix
argument.


As for the claim that the current procedure "makes sure that the subtree 
remains an independent subtree and does not swallow low level entries.", 
either I don't understand it or it isn't true. If I have a level 2 
heading below which is a level 5 heading and I paste subtrees with point 
on the level 2 heading, the level 5 heading is subsumed under the last 
subtree yanked from the clipboard in all cases.

Sorry, but I cannot reproduce.
Could you please provide detailed instructions about what you did?
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