From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id aDKFDeqHwmK3twAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 08:25:46 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4H2QDOqHwmJ12gAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 08:25:46 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D047311467 for ; Mon, 4 Jul 2022 08:25:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:44902 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o8FWi-0003RG-Gu for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 02:25:44 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38748) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o8FV1-0003Qh-NQ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 02:24:03 -0400 Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:36010) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o8FUz-0002Yi-GI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 02:23:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID: Subject:To:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Ek85Pu0gghlTeWuHugdhLDiZ7CdFoLAFvU0ESLnWO70=; b=iTayEb4cseHLGapeeXECAAnJPJ olp3ITLnJaIbDU7tvNQIctH+9RgLxW8K6meq5D2Pdo/Adt/kNvZKUD+IjCqQlvZ2HBk8TdLqBqHtk HSkMQTOz/2YFx+r7rib+fCSnF0TsuXTFheKBbb6hfP1LaQ6OBAmM16zibtwOjvwHx+mR8oRYtvGso UIaB7Y3CUOslFS0BaL0LS4axm8NHxIwRNLhZS6RbM8SlSDN9BlT4gacVyQNMm7EpINQwl8NGReNBR f5MjJq8a5YVxFCGpgDO2/oWBF9oW/pNbhvapZZ3PNt/8SMKvtZbxGDLrbGVvUL/GdCxED+wyoS3RT VblEZ51A==; Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1o8FUw-00061R-DU for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 08:23:54 +0200 Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 08:23:54 +0200 To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [more absurd] Message-ID: References: <87zghtv1o1.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87o7y6aw8l.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87iloeatbo.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87bku6arzq.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <875ykeaqrh.fsf@mat.ucm.es> <87zghpa2f0.fsf@mat.ucm.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="YXlHeHlzKlTEja23" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87zghpa2f0.fsf@mat.ucm.es> From: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1656915945; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Ek85Pu0gghlTeWuHugdhLDiZ7CdFoLAFvU0ESLnWO70=; b=DfuQb8P7A0Pt9Z6shiIr1Dwj7NGzgFe5AOcOltmGWlLo/aBnuWJy+Yq4xs+33lo4HTr4pV YV5bGv1pyOMl8qieqMI0NDr9WNc54QupXwR/iBWa7PRMu7C90dhXNR/csq7hpo5H6jE1Jj 9Bu1EJPT8d7/KeqqgJv9WBc0vfsMG9VgU7n5EgUr5CtI7E3Sco7o0arCVFFABKcJRX1RGB vakxoFdUTXf22EWHNY3AzniUO7kLhHxmn240GazQtRd0/zTc8Jk9vDFPN5+vkHFJhUZj5U DSYuxEJsESCQCg/9vgzDNTqwgzFlKThW2E/yBLZqaNSkQ/80+3CDIpq6x2Ejxg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1656915945; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=ctnpdUDLpJi2t5X0VwupPLL+K9RKhAzQZJf3Y8aja2oYfw1OCQfPjXtlPSZlKB4zU/0CS2 5g1Y6i7JSFHeAUVHCIhZP+o0EIeyf9dvp7IzuDcsmr16G7vA0s5LPHOHW5ghDm3b8FYM0d tXkmFPZ9iMtX9bdzF13jz8wMFKPRbhUJ54meGqEraBCU8mhxeMwoFkqXRySjrxA70TZbpY PSdDWy+nufNxL4UHBCRKePkndrcDfupCGRBvSFln29N4zub7+1XJcT0xk0n9VGmDpgMt5b 2H/OnvTAdogvI+jL312LZXqeawhPZVZ7Q+SJaycxNs6PRdW8SmZxO08UzQDkKQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tuxteam.de header.s=mail header.b=iTayEb4c; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 0.65 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=tuxteam.de header.s=mail header.b=iTayEb4c; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: D047311467 X-Spam-Score: 0.65 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Gx7oJFUsvizK --YXlHeHlzKlTEja23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 04, 2022 at 07:10:27AM +0200, Uwe Brauer wrote: [...] > That really su... (My use case only concerned numbers from 0-10). >=20 > So it boils down to the question: why isn't 0 considered as natural numbe= rs, as, according to the Peano axioms, it is? I don't know whether you're serious or making fun (Poe's Law and all that), but actually, Peano's axioms couldn't care less: as far as they are concerned, natural numbers could well start at 23 or something. Actually it seems to be some kind of "cultural question" whether mathematicians start counting at 0 or at 1; my observation is that they tend to agree across one faculty at one university. I know positively one that tends to count from 1 (HU Berlin), another that counts from 0 (Freiburg), both in Germany. Something for mathematical ethnologists (do those exist?) to mull over. I once asked a maths prof and he said foundational folks (set theorists, math logicians -- that's the typical environment where you'd tend to stumble upon Peano) tend to favour starting at 0. Historically, Peano himself seems to have been a one-counter: "Peano's original formulation of the axioms used 1 instead of 0 as the "first" natural number,[6] while the axioms in Formulario mathematico include zero." as quoted in [1]. Cheers [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peano_axioms --=20 t --YXlHeHlzKlTEja23 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCYsKHdAAKCRAFyCz1etHa RqF3AJ93A6N8ig+UuHs+Hvngjtji4pW2mACfYlzs6Vr/6DWzjiRabuvmvXcycXc= =Z4Dm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --YXlHeHlzKlTEja23--