From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id cAocFAi2aGAklwAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 20:38:00 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 0P/WDQi2aGDiLwAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 18:38:00 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80AF52477E for ; Sat, 3 Apr 2021 20:37:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:51494 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lSl9i-0008PF-Lh for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 14:37:58 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59912) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lSl9C-0008O9-Id for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 14:37:26 -0400 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:36489) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lSl98-00052I-V6 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 14:37:26 -0400 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.42]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000001DF21.000000006068B5DF.00003B53; Sat, 03 Apr 2021 11:37:18 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2021 21:36:24 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Juan Manuel =?utf-8?Q?Mac=C3=ADas?= Subject: Re: First steps exporting to tex Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Juan Manuel =?utf-8?Q?Mac=C3=ADas?= , William Denton , orgmode References: <871rbr7ag1.fsf@gmail.com> <87r1jrdzrg.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87r1jrdzrg.fsf@posteo.net> User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: William Denton , orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1617475080; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=PnpfQ6zk6q0tquz+3uqG+yicdSbciNOZSk9QUT9E7vM=; b=CIvUpZ0dMKSxYGW4A/eSR4MvTfTXsQtdURqk5WL6S5mhfiA8RrulAx0AcUYVOLMRJ+LaB3 2JR6RjIJW13agtHBThcIwhH5vEGqN/ysa2mTHIuaHm24uDraYSfEzk0E37EI700BGVc1Zy 8LYe7FkCz9S5+LAXlDp4AmH3QkJCKu1MDAikwro+OiXhCrNDZ76UEM2aDD8enLizpKb5Sx dpTfe33xvr6oolLoFTDrVcdRSNs/iZzGawLz4RQPT5pEr8ouTbfGATFYc2rJ4IzbrNZ9cB 0A1B9plRTPCCENzM/yHgwEYFvKoqpLuRKi/kk8kfuKZ8vsCO/aBegyv2ofH4eg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1617475080; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=SZrpR768MMAQkGszDC4hx/khNs2wc2Eo/aYLIFWTDwWl+ve2BjA7n++xThaDxMrKhUEkBw hZXtmm2i5+H2o2D2rUq4aGSALRdMMGvKCntczKYfDLfLxT13zAI3l7OFhKJybqF9EgvZXt KbqIFZ677Ed/YCjE2Z53zfL5ME2qWKvJwAOJgLDh+nHqM+dYvcoGxsvsATziNJ1C9omCaE tx4+ExK3IO8jJ21j8px6Wz/HcFgDJIyoAP0tC5iZiMwYE6VgcG7LFf0HTbBjvCXaq5481x Bm/0aicObkE26irW1/7RnO8+3PeOK4QggbC84eOecaKcjILZPral/qC9qahtsg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.43 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 80AF52477E X-Spam-Score: -2.43 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Av3sJnOWbU2M * Juan Manuel Macías [2021-04-03 20:51]: > William Denton writes: > > > [...] and it looks like a published book or journal article! > > Something similar I thought, in my student days, when at the early '90 I > saw a document printed in word perfect, just because it had a book > typeface (Times Roman), footnotes and many more fancy stuff. It looked > /almost/ like a book. > > With LaTeX something similar happens for the user who is not trained in > professional typesetting. TeX as a typographic engine makes an excellent > work at the 'physical' level, but as we say in Spain, the trees do > not let us see the forest. A LaTeX document produced from standard way > will need (likely) a lot of fine tuning, and a solid typographic culture > acquired by those who check it out. TeX and LaTeX must be prime chose who need professional typesetting. Org mode offers limited insight into powers of LaTeX. Org offers quick document creation by using LaTeX and LaTeX may be used to extend Org. It cannot satisfy all people by default. Each person may need customization. Do you have a specific remark on what would be major wrong with the default LaTeX export from your viewpoint? For me, I like larger letters and more space on paper. I find it narrow and not enough legible. But that is not typographically technical comment. > On the other hand, I think that if an Org user is going to export often > to LaTeX, he should know LaTeX reasonably well. Opposite may be said as well. Exporting to LaTeX may be just a side effect in order to create a PDF file. Org user may not need nothing about LaTeX. Even if exporting is often, Org user need not know nothing about LaTeX. Other converter like `pandoc' also offer conversion to LaTeX and user need not know nothing about it. That is the beauty. It does not help the professional though, as professional must know all the specific details. > I do not say that he > become a LaTeXpert, but at least the user should have clear which > concepts are from Org and which concepts are from LaTeX. The LaTeX > packages you may need as you want to do more complex things, and how to > use those packages. Etc. On the Org side there are many and excellent > resources to control the export process. But in any translation process > you have to know the source language (Org) and what can be expressed in > the final language (LaTeX) and how. What you describe relates to advanced LaTeX users who need good quality or who have special needs. Average Org user who knows that Org can export to LaTeX will rather use it as side effect in order to get PDF file. > And the the same happens if the > output is HTML, Epub or whatever. I think Org is an excellent tool, full > of possibilities (maybe a lot of them don't explored yet) and wonderful > things, but it is not magic, although its logo is an unicorn ;-) It is not magic. Yet integration provided by developers brought it to point that simple Org file, text file, can be quickly converted into nice PDF documents. It does not matter if files are edited remotely on mobile devices by using any kind of editor, once file is processed by Emacs and exported it becomes universally accepted. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman https://rms-support-letter.github.io/