From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id QDBjMTou0GOrmgAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 20:15:06 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id IDSFMDou0GM7oQAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 20:15:06 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DD3441F8C for ; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 20:15:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKOkA-0004BT-Pb; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:14:07 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKOk8-0004BJ-VW for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:14:04 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pKOk5-00046Y-4L for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:14:03 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.13.158]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000010383A.0000000063D02DF7.00007B35; Tue, 24 Jan 2023 12:13:58 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2023 22:01:55 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: AW , Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Link from orgmode file to E-Mail (using kmail or notmuch) Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Ihor Radchenko , AW , Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <3218434.44csPzL39Z@linux.fritz.box> <21750362.EfDdHjke4D@linux.fritz.box> <87zga95yav.fsf@localhost> <2140555.Mh6RI2rZIc@localhost.localdomain> <87sfg05kz5.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87sfg05kz5.fsf@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1674587706; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=eKN7cVvtAjJcfzWx93FBKukqFsN2HIP3GYxqQmneZJGPMRxlq3j/aPPDhBJ090Ry2/+N00 5s2SeM3o72o2a1FqdvERYkxtH+/VgkpDTvcOpIDvwtyHZWsZLwJmYc9VaJAV/SGKWZvYMk qhSQq3N9bATPxt2VTnikQgDG3zmn7QWo2VuvkfdMHXzgC8+qnZUBh5BtS/VtmU7GKcCXw/ jtOi+YV22szB3iEObRhYZ8tZNuKHFMTHs3dzs88/iGWFWYH57Qas8Gw9x0OJmtBdVHZ7Wj iRMaxwKgofMrgO4yKIBKy81LsGj1PZr0PkPa6ojVqNM1xmFqmEdd3uA2CAfCFw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1674587706; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=RxPSGs1dGjy0GShxQpYkbdsAlMQxNGEgLYX/p9sef9o=; b=k119z1McTH+9m8JgyjqBu0YsNAgGUs+9nakmBJ+MOpdfn/nX1y4mPyUbefQNafMhVUeNMf lgcT0ph8Tj9VWfA7s3oXf42kOgWGyBv2sQUt6E5g4hircS7bPUcmj3mk4/EFv1aL7KQBpX IVaw/7b+CccLaRxhWrbmlVhmTbpZ0rZpNc7GZMssXe9YhOdmX9vYJXIm7CKDwEtf7giL15 uJSaUvogFNsAdiczAA9jlLw3wLPSfGxJpzc0tgjPPlXEanyd1wG32lBUN9P8KGGREv0mZh KWyyCGFOZ+4Og0vl7LSVeck/y7q+VqeHtiqxstxIROnflT0pHE1TBpIyzbMRsA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.68 X-Spam-Score: -1.68 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5DD3441F8C Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-TUID: fKB2r2VqyHof * Ihor Radchenko [2023-01-24 12:41]: > > This is weird since ever. I've been talking to some collegues and everybody > > has his/her own special approach. Mostly producing a PDF from the E-Mail and > > saving this and its attachments somewhere. That's a thing that bothered me for > > decades. > > Well. The more widely used standard is Maildir - downloading emails from > server to local machine. Emails are just files there that can be indexed > by variety of mail client software. I have to give some corrections according to my knowledge. Maildir is less used format, not widely used. Not even in GNU/Linux, it is simply not default. I guess mbox format is much more used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbox And it is not related to how people download or not download e-mails. And how server uses mail boxes is also independent of how users use mailboxes. E-mails are not "just files", they are pieces of informaton and if they are stored as files depends of software. When e-mail is on server, it may run different software storing e-mails in the databases where database objects are not independent files for each e-mail, and can't be manipulated as such. And retrieving e-mails, while mostly in form of files, may be also in form of a database objects. There is server side and client side software, they work independent of each other and decide how to store e-mails. Or not store it at all at client's computer. To understand what is widely used e-mail file format, one has to see what are widely used e-mail clients. Maybe this picture may help: https://d27jswm5an3efw.cloudfront.net/app/uploads/2021/04/most-popular-email-clients-graph.jpeg or this one: https://www.oberlo.com/media/1673256706-most-used-email-clients-worldwide.png?fit=max&fm=webp&w=1800 Those are by majority all web software clients. No matter if statistics are right or wrong, not even Thunderbird is there, and Thunderbird has Maildir only as experimental option. And regarding indexing, many e-mail programs do not support indexing, it is not at all their main purpose. They may retrieve e-mail, read, reply, sort, delete, but indexing is often forgotten feature. > The main question is which email clients actually support mid: links. > notmuch does, but in non-standard way, without doing it system-wide. notmuch is more indexing system, and programs working with notmuch may be considered email clients. Another e-mail indexing program is "mu" and I am sure it can search by Message-ID: https://www.djcbsoftware.nl/code/mu/ as notmuch never worked on my computer. I can't verify it as I did not use index, being very efficient without it due to method of sorting all e-mails per Maildir representing the e-mail address. Sadly mid: appear not to be supported by many software, just as many software not supporting various URLs when they should. Let us not forget there are universal URL launchers, such as: - exo-open from XFce - xdg-open - opens a file or URL in the user's preferred application (Free Desktop - kde-open from KDE - rox -U -- may launch any type of URI handlers by user customization: https://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/book/export/html/163.html And there are others, including browsers being mainly used to launch any types of URI schemes. Maybe you can see the pattern that there various launchers for URI schemes and all of them allow users to specify which software to use, and there are many browsers, majority of browsers follow the pattern to allow users to specify how to open which URI scheme. By seeing the pattern, you may see why is it useful. I hope so. And then I hope you will not keep URI handlers hard coded, but allow Org users to decide which launcher, browser, or what to use on Org hyperlinks. When I think of "mid:" I think of "Message-ID: " and that is generally not hard to find in various e-mail formats. In Emacs, for mbox files, it would be something as: (search-forward "87y2e2bgzh.fsf@example.com") followed by extracting and displaying of the found e-mail. With Maildirs it would be `grep' search on Maildir folder, it is almost instant on hundreds of e-mails. Of course scalability is a problem when using `grep' as with too many e-mails, it would last long. That is why both for mh, mbox, Maildir and other folders, one shall always specify the folder location. Without folder location mid:123 alone would require indexer to find the Message-ID. That is why it would not be for Org to specify how mid links are opened but for user to customize it. As user may have mid:// format or only mid: or maybe mid://file/message-id format, depending of the software. That Thunderbird uses only mid:message-id format is definitely unique and not ordinary as generally e-mail clients do not support it. Additionally, mid: need not specify only local file, it could specify IMAP as well mid:imaps://example.com/INBOX&message-id -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/