From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id wNQEAf5o32MwFQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 05 Feb 2023 09:29:50 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id yCwWO/1o32PaOgAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 05 Feb 2023 09:29:49 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34861FFE2 for ; Sun, 5 Feb 2023 09:29:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pOaOw-0005Pu-15; Sun, 05 Feb 2023 03:29:30 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pOaOo-0005OG-V7 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Feb 2023 03:29:24 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pOaOh-0006uZ-2m for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Feb 2023 03:29:16 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:102.83.69.138]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000010B845.0000000063DF68BD.00000F2C; Sun, 05 Feb 2023 01:28:44 -0700 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2023 22:32:08 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: Christian Moe , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Ihor Radchenko , Christian Moe , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <3035CDD5-41DD-4516-9E4E-9E0DF16BE2E0@gmail.com> <87lelo8c9r.fsf@localhost> <2150768.1675077958@archlinux> <87tu063ox2.fsf@localhost> <87r0v9sio1.fsf@christianmoe.com> <87edr9lgq6.fsf@localhost> <87edr8qx75.fsf@localhost> <87r0v5g0jh.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <87r0v5g0jh.fsf@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -8 X-Spam_score: -0.9 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=1.049, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1675585789; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=Z5Pb6Md2fd5QVHq9pGDdSv3dbuXOe/3wyXiMnG1vjbw=; b=bDhbBPXH9dzm7GpUeiJJKOElVTtj99+1dQUlova4c5rGpnMoSSgfOuP+ooJ1s4phdlUrct RAzczBQBjq4T4Kr/l5Ujy3Ig1w2m5nxjgeVy6zrjRzihJK1vxQ/ANrPm2Ot5LVJHZxiKL5 7vCCmzSHG4QOz7CSglAV65wnFryQ1dCOgFgYIhwAnyoXqVGJ94C/QOUGhUVJLAE1kgrdaX hHnntTCbY6IItjV9RBfLUfbvi3xR6GOyMcj6u+mgEiQ7E9B31zxBcb57uxlCwCQONq1c3i N0m3GftQ9sqiDi+yEXFAfdccQKxUBhpplUJnzDMQRwon4o74xXPX0OnPnjRNtA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1675585789; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=NZHjaW6OL+n9FmvVX9ASrGcfk+LT4cDHkBcBUc38OoapOEPtvcLenUam3CQY7gIvYvEqK+ kNh20rx8im8vI08x2eVHjqXV3gt21coz4/ZoeRj53E7SLwgoO6AwG/90UXNGuijNFledT3 7w08AhSb+4MvkCRoQlr219cwD6OZbYVc5ssTwojy30NFy09E0oCBIRcGzxoXC8DvyE71fV JD6SykSoVL7RRpPPEj2//OOIJSyFkBx8ug7qC4qvZb0M842wsq9VjD2D8eN1IYxw/BE+Tw 7NhzNb8iw7zCoQM7TyQiJd+j+Th63QlxVYMqHQxakazRgsuwmRpMXNxgyzxV6w== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.89 X-Spam-Score: -2.89 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 34861FFE2 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: d/SkxRnmhqGV * Ihor Radchenko [2023-02-04 13:58]: > I used "UTC+2" because it is how offsets are often represented. > For example, https://time.is/London is displaying the following: > > Time in London, United Kingdom now > ... > Time zone > - Currently Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), UTC +0 > - Daylight saving time (British Summer Time (BST), UTC +1) > starts March 26, 2023 The above examples are not good enough, for following reasons: - in your example, you did not show other time zone but UTC time zone, plus the UTC prefix. - in the above shown example, there are time zones shown, plus the UTC prefix, and that is how it should be > Note UTC +0 and UTC +1. Yes, but in your example, if I remember well, you used @ (now I cannot be sure), so if you used @UTC+1 for me that would mean you are using the time zone named "UTC" (I just assume it can be used as time zone as it exists on my side in the database as well as one of time zones) and then you added the UTC prefix too. That is not compatible with each other. If you use UTC time zone, prefix is always +0 or nothing. If you use time zone other than UTC time zone, then prefix will be there. > I've seen such format in multiple time websites. That is fine, sure, I have seen it too, though your representation and those examples have difference. > On the other hand, TZ POSIX is reverse from what is commonly meant when > displaying UTC +1. POSIX is for computers, that is how I understand it, time zones, UTC offsets, they are rather for human. > > I think it is incorrect time stamp. If you specify UTC, you do not > > specify UTC offset. > > It is a correct TZ value 🤷 Time zone value? That is what I meant, and that is how I understood it as "time zone value" and it's label was "UTC", and then in that case UTC offset can't be there, as it is contradictory to show UTC offset with UTC time as UTC time has no UTC offset. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/