From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id iN88GjPuy2MEKQEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 14:52:51 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id uKtzGTPuy2MFWAAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 14:52:51 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B0C713D5D for ; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 14:52:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJEHm-00024S-HU; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 08:51:58 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJEHh-000243-BD for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 08:51:53 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pJEHf-00061n-HR for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 08:51:53 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.14.92]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000103840.0000000063CBEDF6.00004F88; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 06:51:49 -0700 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 16:10:28 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: "Thomas S. Dye" Cc: Tim Cross , Ihor Radchenko , Daryl Manning , rjhorn@alum.mit.edu, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: "Thomas S. Dye" , Tim Cross , Ihor Radchenko , Daryl Manning , rjhorn@alum.mit.edu, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <87r0vtiks0.fsf@localhost> <63c671c0.a70a0220.61aa5.56b8@mx.google.com> <87fsc88aq9.fsf@localhost> <63c7dd3d.170a0220.6b4d6.f84f@mx.google.com> <877cxk6oeu.fsf@localhost> <63c86454.170a0220.80970.652d@mx.google.com> <87wn5jf2to.fsf@tsdye.online> <87sfg6fq8u.fsf@tsdye.online> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87sfg6fq8u.fsf@tsdye.online> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1674309171; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=K6eRbwj+Cq8DHqYyMX+uK/hCljJ8FS3b9+dAz8kT2Yg=; b=F8SipQlFDswkLYEii7P+44GhHfE+6Lq6NzVxsTc3iKQrDG+otQO8e4d4MIOjbvxqdWSZ32 LPcnGZsBsYPwTs+eBWee5uxXBc6F0L3uwZupyg3YLTRC47jIr/oU7f+XGN2AYQFS+zbpVV zGw+ogkaLrYyp05PQH5b9/qFl10M9HH+kxVLpJ+pLBFlxVOzmk4IVPCHNbPzrMsqlIq4p8 W7JRI576Y0Jl6IwG5WtrtDYQrZnpbgU/8CAaTD8fOl6uS8LllJto9Y/Sf13+0GOZp6BHw+ FajMomXUGgC2NL1snhBFezqQ+Q1qlvs7ptovtcegCrSYmVLMjsZjMqyq2dssRg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1674309171; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=QGkMDbnfVfmFpM6q6rEPsyqN7137nR1ZrDn3r5YVW2qFOqoqM6Vr96bNoxmUMWDJ6we3SA GMavxtFMsWQFuQV43w0BkQEbmR7BxP1XSEiHtLWNycYrVogO9YvKVUxz3Gwm+A2BPWqaJb o1SCwi0hIdtl4kkr3mirBrkBHzyxxcyUF8vH7PtJs1/uaFcKBgr3u0zXOPaVYP+RX4JGux 02z6YPpDdR+X5dSYqnT17/A8Nl/G+rCIOYV2HSyckejmouWK6CULn7j3VA9y7VrCAbJ409 5TPfGpJk0DW3GBm/uvPVDRs3pU8n+PG4sggiB1hXd0AHnHDvfo2zQTObFUvwUA== X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.91 X-Spam-Score: -0.91 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 1B0C713D5D Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-TUID: Uv+rpUeW/zkq * Thomas S. Dye [2023-01-19 19:23]: > Only occurrences require absolute time, UTC. Events do not. They > follow the user's space/time. I understand you got your context specific terminology, from the mentioned book, where you are making philosophically different distinction between occurence and event as opposed to distinction by its ordinary meaning in English. What really matters ------------------- What matters is aid to users' life. When arguing, try to make a checklist and TEST it: - [ ] can user easily understand the time displayed? - [ ] can user relate the displayed time to his local time without hesitation? - [ ] is that program that programmer creates beneficial to user or to programmer, or theoretician of absolutes, rights and wrongs? How to test it? Usability Testing 101: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/usability-testing-101/ Today there is in computing pretty much agreement that: ------------------------------------------------------- - All computer time should be stored to UTC, UTC being basis for any other computations - System libraries have (or should have) various configurations - Computer users should be shown their local time * Overview of noun occurrence ----------------------------- The noun occurrence has 2 senses (first 2 from tagged texts) 1. (29) happening, occurrence, occurrent, natural event -- (an event that happens) 2. (3) occurrence -- (an instance of something occurring; "a disease of frequent occurrence"; "the occurrence (or presence) of life on other planets") * Overview of noun event The noun event has 4 senses (first 2 from tagged texts) 1. (62) event -- (something that happens at a given place and time) 2. (6) event, case -- (a special set of circumstances; "in that event, the first possibility is excluded"; "it may rain in which case the picnic will be canceled") 3. event -- (a phenomenon located at a single point in space-time; the fundamental observational entity in relativity theory) 4. consequence, effect, outcome, result, event, issue, upshot -- (a phenomenon that follows and is caused by some previous phenomenon; "the magnetic effect was greater when the rod was lengthwise"; "his decision had depressing consequences for business"; "he acted very wise after the event") -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/