From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id aLbqN32NwmOmEQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 12:09:49 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id eGzoN32NwmNw2QAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 12:09:49 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAACF12A8E for ; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 12:09:49 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGeP7-00040V-54; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 06:08:53 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGeP4-0003yo-Vc for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 06:08:51 -0500 Received: from se13.route25.eu ([2a00:f10:121:a00:1c00:efff:fe00:1854]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pGeP3-0001SC-4T for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jan 2023 06:08:50 -0500 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2023 12:08:37 +0100 From: Russell Adams To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <63c287ca.a70a0220.4bd14.873b@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <63c287ca.a70a0220.4bd14.873b@mx.google.com> X-Originating-IP: 185.87.184.57 X-SpamExperts-Domain: out.pcextreme.nl X-SpamExperts-Username: 185.87.184.57 X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class: ham X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.21) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: Pt3MvcO5N4iKaDQ5O6lkdGlMVN6RH8bjRMzItlySaT9zA3hjd7TxkA2qpyGg+1IiPUtbdvnXkggZ 3YnVId/Y5jcf0yeVQAvfjHznO7+bT5xiExUbNqvmdkLSOzf1W2Y3z8hkeSqZT0W1YMl0fRDa99cV PSoHm0W/3adFfiYl2nuBNnvrCYc+SmvWIG5jJLBK/T4GcPvCLvSpAEEGy7kYxsD3QRUnhlexiXT3 xXuXeIhevFP+kOiMW3ZJfjMJYMEj+gaXrHkgRC7/tI3CjXmVygcEuoxOHR6vQv6yoA7XJP/Hh0cQ L0Ci0sRm4Wh/iZxmZw2OUofLfB7s8QYvnn3mfsztdQUSqk/AeLi65+4s/LrywTM2yEHEhvC9Izsy /NENTMQ3Kg3hL2oXz5A5E5R/dS4GkJ5hfB+qWugfDEytZYoACfRtBjLzEjgIZNLWhI/Mshn3T8Ox KyIrAogwLlirll+u0Sc2bgjgy6NE5WzPnrJ1fJyKyenPq733oZ8bAyJmHQrtppYmxMktfUX7kfB+ UdezYqxGMqsKjARq8PBC4qgxMmglBiLsgrvXOb7qEGUwgxHIagHkgJmlqPNWnLI1oovhSJcbnX/H QqL/X9rNCJCc6iESJvKm1NV8gkr+Wu8ScVDXinOVyuIpITQ9z3M3DO7OWuqF1+w/pTOKTb9S094O 5ldb4EwDPpdfe0QRwC0umIR+sr29XFKA/JGKa7q904Rg96MBpy7O7NSQ72fsq7U5y9phFQNqs3ow 7qoYE68Mb9qUxf0isHFqyjYDGBkd2y32EoSnB0KQ6B3xt8UP9IrQLp/miaSDdXxJiAZb1EzkDw0J UO/SMw1JqaZJdGBLj98g3OFuVHb7bCYm6/AivWkqF/5icWqdGrCCtOFTv9hBctgzcDoFd+96Xw4Q UNtTncaOn0+WJUUa3BJTNKQ18zDN24asJdvYl1Y19r9fXlcpDneFtYF4v0IUhnwA7zUt/ygkKg3C UVSz51jczPLYUPONvxgu6jFRoaLzVpT+CP36s6RbLfB6BI3XJUys1lM3IMGhDC7qKEsgLqHNXMxe jlB49DjiWowOnKvI8aF4jzAuZNIARVagEMhjyGL5llQ69151eclHOr67cHgLgz4Hvn0= X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@semaster01.route25.eu Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:f10:121:a00:1c00:efff:fe00:1854; envelope-from=rladams@adamsinfoserv.com; helo=se13.route25.eu X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673694589; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Liurjyg6eaVZJHojkttT+NlveK9acJCgMnu+LOay88q/5OpaFOEBLfhd949jg4bHvROpF1 qyr0S5TWoScmDFQ7YEMoVCn/YCU7xBsCEN5kivO7Ub+FvBd601Rwro4WPwKUDW5wHXV117 Ebwh6uTky2v7rAP9yxN50R5k4PFEMLBHUwzw1Sl773/DCQb9bzeZ+u6GmlBhh9oYSKC4Bb QT/Y2MHm+Jm8SWWR2aMHX0LsnjqJ8SsiTwUFbRHMTBmR8zDnWCDayOoKGR7Y0xmbg1j+ZJ FeLKhx7ZXQTAx2RV3BTkodDBv2AYIC54DG3UrRFTGZ3oOF61SJnCqafZCX3X2A== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673694589; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=J9hY8avhXhjFUMgnCdMpOvv1/NwENh0Gf2yncSz8xbo=; b=D1fx6KbYH9pfhDOEdBEn6MQnuR4KCimlbdRUvINrU05f9TzaQUo77lNyKVwMRtxjaIqVA6 UJaZqrEs2qkjYfjg3wnuBuV+tJ4c+dLH8VEFWtjPgSB5MCi5Bep27DMIrBRz4EG3yf/R8D 7YmofbHX8jYOGMlEZtrXmDpZegdLHCTNyF5r2vr6oHp0gRfxrJJrTZ7ANlB9xlPaKz33nQ vhkZnp7JqmPM5dsLym5F7VcifaGus/fKiQHTy4XwBb4Em241NnyO8X4lpsMjHBFVb0Vy9s EVM3Noca3fId88nU5exGSejZ/Qfpj8mxUGIlY4OpnrU1ZaLGTvEEEsVO6bntsA== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.41 X-Spam-Score: -2.41 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: AAACF12A8E X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-TUID: BMavdKJQ6oko On Sat, Jan 14, 2023 at 08:32:30PM +1100, Tim Cross wrote: > If org was to add TZ capabilities to timestamps, the underlying format > would have to be UTC. My previous post where I suggested there was two > 'layers', the underlying storage layer (used for calculations like > duration or comparison etc) and a presentation layer (what the human > sees, which is often in whatever their local TZ is). One of the key issues is that Org timestamps were supposed to be human writable and readable. Computer generated timestamps can easily be long and complex, and potentially hidden under a presentation layer. I have yet to see a proposal that really satisfies both use cases. Writing incomplete timestamps as a human means timestamps in $TZ. Long computer generated timestamps may prefer UTC or to include timezone information (ie: ISO 8601 or RFC 3339). Can't Org also ready diary formatted timestamps? Do those include timezones? I know they include better repeat information. Maybe we can build on that? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Russell Adams RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.com https://www.adamsinfoserv.com/