From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id YO9sG5fEuWMeKAEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 07 Jan 2023 20:14:31 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id CG9uGpfEuWN+VgEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 07 Jan 2023 20:14:31 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB41BAB54 for ; Sat, 7 Jan 2023 20:14:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pEEdg-0001oA-JD; Sat, 07 Jan 2023 14:13:56 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pEEdf-0001o2-1L for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jan 2023 14:13:55 -0500 Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pEEdd-0002o6-3F for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 07 Jan 2023 14:13:54 -0500 Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.239.14.179]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000055E9D.0000000063B9C453.000031C3; Sat, 07 Jan 2023 12:13:23 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2023 21:34:08 +0300 From: Jean Louis To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Export Org with Org concept -- Re: Problems with C-c C-e file.org, Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: Ihor Radchenko , Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org References: <877cy673ot.fsf@localhost> <87edsckkym.fsf@localhost> <87y1qhdyeb.fsf@localhost> <87o7rag1g6.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87o7rag1g6.fsf@localhost> User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.9+54 (af2080d) (2022-11-21) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, GAPPY_SUBJECT=0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673118871; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=WFqUMgUnBwa21FJdlku0zi/Ait9nQaQDTVTARUpQXkE=; b=DHDkyHfZs8sSMTgtf6dGots8POi6jga+bhHCVtUZrb25s8WddTDjvONdmrfRKEoK2cc0cu wQX98nKenfyQMkUZJhg1JdwUg+JM3jUsH9LZzopUJyQ/XZOs7KJzPmVAkcZZr9OyXWjUrr oiIKV5Q0o3LjltgwNaHmT2SsQwxlEHPnCVjpdj/44izMF3mZBiEf4Bm5nCXr0HUXkQ5CPY q3o5XLkPlzD0NXDul+Lnc1wVzqTeEo0/Us/4WaRJ/i7XuWnRU9OPgNTbNK50zFVz9R6Sie HujwYJlbOM6ikqCEEiOQSLKLCBtc/J9UNWNxhnhzEx6WIjc1GRV0LkGRsGaHcQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673118871; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=dow4Ou9rT5JXwXCa0rh921u5JpZitsvW6dHx0VnbaesBnuf4uGiK6ZgHhGaHy1O/kumeTb cippVyk2h4nRrcYZQAeCZ2ThPJgi+jU5ZS7EjIsXTrSsf91kgBC4aT8n99JMM/wj+7LgJK dBUxb7sw7a9Xg/6Ftw5CUZeRRRZQerOe64Ix6zndcWjwLTHiF8z40zgivdeHw7WxOx1qxI 9gZ2Tu1WWmW+QdQcQ9SaKcD1r6VrE5dMLDLxpdo4iUKuPU3PlMGwKH627qbvUZqikLk2Mi lDidsHBgPfv7GvJqHSmrCUkkQg4oBRO1r6oVf38tjz9BFscCyzNpThib0kXyXQ== X-Spam-Score: -2.36 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: EB41BAB54 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=none X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.36 X-TUID: AJZNDSI2+SWs * Ihor Radchenko [2023-01-07 12:04]: > As I said, the requirement to get it into the core is re-creating > previous layout and bindings. The layout and bindings may be > customizable, but they must be available. You have got the concept, you may implement it. > > The Concept and More Ideas: > > --------------------------- > > > > 1. You can create derived mode, for example Org derived mode. > > This has pros and cons. Org derived mode means that personal > customization, including key bindings and themes, may affect menus. This > may or may not be desired. It was example of the mode. You may use any mode you wish. I said it is example. Though I do not know how personal customization may affect the generated temporary Org buffer which sole purpose is to invoke functions. If for example, export of body only is somewhere customized than package similar to RCD Org Export may set those variables correspondingly, or recognize user's options. > > 3. You can create read-only, temporary buffers for export in that > > derived mode. > > I am not sure what you are referring to. You have to review the concept I have sent. A temporary generated buffer is used as menu, in read-only mode. Of course you don't want to users to write into temporary generated buffer (RCD Org Export), but if they really want, they can turn off read-only-mode. Because you wish to setup key bindings, you should use derived mode. I am referring to concept how you would do the non-blocking menu. > > 4. Because it is read only, similar to modal modes, you do not need > > complicated key bindings, you don't need to use C-combinations for > > few simple things, use simply letter. > > Same as what we do now in the menus. I do not think that we need to > change the existing bindings (by default). All is your choice. I am giving you concept on which you can build. > > 5. Though it implies you can use same key bindings for > > "compatibility", but I would say it rather honestly for bad habits, > > as in the derived. > > As I said earlier, "bad habits" is a judgment. We will not break user > experience if we don't have to. It includes existing bindings. > > Introducing alternatives is possible though. Of course it is judgment, and nothing wrong with it, I keep judging it, that is why I don't use it, it is disturbing. All opinions are judgments. Though my judgments are based on experience with Org and many other software, it is informed opinion, not just a biased opinion without inspection. It is opinion with a solution. People make opinions all the time, that something is judgment is obvious. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/